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The Other Five Paths (2e)

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    I'm open to suggestions.

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  • Falcon777
    replied
    Hmm...in that case I would try to make it more clear that you're talking about history and not stories. The word story conjures the image of fiction, whereas you're talking about in game nonfiction.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by Falcon777 View Post
    I'd remove the whole story bit of the Time Mind mages simply because Fate is THE story arcanum. Otherwise these are very interesting.
    The stories that the Kleos deal with aren't about narrative structure; they're about oral history. They're grounded in events that actually happened. And given the abilities of the Time Arcanum, a Bard has the potential to not only recount history, but to literally revise it.

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  • Falcon777
    replied
    I'd remove the whole story bit of the Time Mind mages simply because Fate is THE story arcanum. Otherwise these are very interesting.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dataweaver
    replied
    OK; I've got skeletal write-ups set up for each Path; please review the relevant posts on the first page. Let me emphasize that these are skeletal: I have the framework set up, but I have almost no meat on the bones. I'm seeking input; this is a really big task for one person to do solo.

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  • Deionscribe
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I've been rethinking the Anakalos, and I think I got their focus wrong. Consider: the purviews of Fate are blessings, hexes, probability, fortune, oaths, promises, intentions, and destiny; the purviews of Space are distance, separation, sympathy, conjuration, scrying, and warding. What's the greatest synergy between these? It's not distance or separation, as implied by my original focus on explorers — although there is something to that, which should not get lost (no pun intended). No, the greatest synergy is between Sympathy, oaths, promises, and intentions. The core of the synergy is that all of these deal with what's important to the subject. Consider this paragraph, extracted from Space's discussion about Sympathy:
    “Sympathetic links manipulated with the Space Arcanum echo from the Supernal to the Fallen, wreaking subtle but long-standing changes in the subjects. Sever a man's link to his husband and the relationship cools and grows distant. Create a bond between a woman and a gun, and she'll find herself thinking about it, dreaming about it — and left to their own devices odds are good woman and gun will cross paths.”
    That is, you have Sympathetic connections to that which you care about, and vice versa. This sense of importance resonates nicely with Fate's purview of intentions, which is also about what's important to you: you generally don't make promises or swear oaths about things that don't matter to you. With this in mind, the mages on this Path aren't explorers so much as they're deal-makers: diplomats and merchants. At its most noble, this Path is about meeting peoples' needs and fulfilling their desires; at its worst, it's about the con artist and the politician who exploit peoples' needs and twist their desires to their own ends. It's not a Path of Discovery (beyond the extent that any mage can be said to be on a Path of Discovery, given their addiction to Mysteries); it's a Path of Value, or perhaps of Meaning. To the extent that other purviews factor in, distance and separation are important to the traveling merchant, while scrying keeps lines of communication open between a foreign dignitary and her homeland; while blessings and hexes give supernatural weight to deals that are made, fortune and destiny let you seek out opportunities, and probability helps with “there is no reward without risk”. Speaking of which:

    Risk and Reward still works as the central dichotomy of the Path; in fact, it works even better than it used to under the exploration theme. But the stereotypes and imagery need an overhaul; and even the Path's name might need to be rethought. Maybe the Axios? (Axía is greek for “value, worth, merit, valuation, denomination, worthiness”).

    Thoughts?
    I am definitely liking these changes. I think it makes more sense to refer to the Axios as "the Path of Meaning", especially since its two Ruling Arcana defines the meaning of one's life through his destiny, intentions, and promises (w/ Fate) and his ties with the persons, places, and things around him (w/ Space). Discovery for Mages who Awaken to the Firmament is about realizing who you are, and how you must overcome trials and tribulations in your life in order to find the answer.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    I've been rethinking the Anakalos, and I think I got their focus wrong. Consider: the purviews of Fate are blessings, hexes, probability, fortune, oaths, promises, intentions, and destiny; the purviews of Space are distance, separation, sympathy, conjuration, scrying, and warding. What's the greatest synergy between these? It's not distance or separation, as implied by my original focus on explorers — although there is something to that, which should not get lost (no pun intended). No, the greatest synergy is between Sympathy, oaths, promises, and intentions. The core of the synergy is that all of these deal with what's important to the subject. Consider this paragraph, extracted from Space's discussion about Sympathy:
    “Sympathetic links manipulated with the Space Arcanum echo from the Supernal to the Fallen, wreaking subtle but long-standing changes in the subjects. Sever a man's link to his husband and the relationship cools and grows distant. Create a bond between a woman and a gun, and she'll find herself thinking about it, dreaming about it — and left to their own devices odds are good woman and gun will cross paths.”
    That is, you have Sympathetic connections to that which you care about, and vice versa. This sense of importance resonates nicely with Fate's purview of intentions, which is also about what's important to you: you generally don't make promises or swear oaths about things that don't matter to you. With this in mind, the mages on this Path aren't explorers so much as they're deal-makers: diplomats and merchants. At its most noble, this Path is about meeting peoples' needs and fulfilling their desires; at its worst, it's about the con artist and the politician who exploit peoples' needs and twist their desires to their own ends. It's not a Path of Discovery (beyond the extent that any mage can be said to be on a Path of Discovery, given their addiction to Mysteries); it's a Path of Value, or perhaps of Meaning. To the extent that other purviews factor in, distance and separation are important to the traveling merchant, while scrying keeps lines of communication open between a foreign dignitary and her homeland; while blessings and hexes give supernatural weight to deals that are made, fortune and destiny let you seek out opportunities, and probability helps with “there is no reward without risk”. Speaking of which:

    Risk and Reward still works as the central dichotomy of the Path; in fact, it works even better than it used to under the exploration theme. But the stereotypes and imagery need an overhaul; and even the Path's name might need to be rethought. Maybe the Axios? (Axía is greek for “value, worth, merit, valuation, denomination, worthiness”).

    Thoughts?

    Leave a comment:


  • Deionscribe
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    For most of them, I started with the “Path of…” names: Discovery, Excellence, Mastery, and Balance, then mangled them to end with “-os”. I originally did the same with Enlightenment, which gave me Diafos; but then Grytorm suggested Kleos, which apparently means “to hear” but has connotations of tales of glory.

    I'm not seeing the difficulty of integrating these into the Dark Eras; at least, it's no more trouble than integrating the official five Paths into the Dark Eras.

    It's worth noting that while an effort has been made in 2e to treat each of the five official Paths as equally reliant on both Ruling Arcana, there's still a bit of a bias toward the Subtle Arcana. When using all ten Paths, one option would be to play up this bias: call them the Subtle Paths or the Recondite Paths or the Paths of the Soul, or similar terms, and think of them being slightly lopsided: the Acanthus Rule Fate and Time; the Mastigos Rule Mind and Space; the Moros (“Path of Doom!”) Rule Death and Matter; the Obrimos Rule Prime and Forces; and the Thyrsus Rule Spirit and Life. There are no mechanical consequences for this, any more than there are any systemic distinctions between Subtle and Gross Arcana; it's purely a matter of one's mindset.

    But if you go with that mindset, then these “other five Paths” become “the Gross Paths”, “the Manifest Paths”, or “the Paths of the World”, with an equally slight bias toward their Gross Ruling Arcana: the Anakalos Rule Space and Fate; the Aretos Rule Matter and Prime; the Kleos Rule Time and Mind; the Mæstros Rule Forces and Spirit; and the Sophros Rule Life and Death.

    In To the Strongest, the Egyptian magi would latch on to the correlations between the Paths of the Soul and the Egyptian five-fold soul, whereas the Indo-greek magi might latch onto correlations between the Paths of the World and their notion of Elementalism (with the Elemental Mastery Legacies being based off of these new Paths rather than the original five). Each would have a mystery of five Paths that don't fit their model, and the two views would be complementary.
    These notes are definitely worth pondering over. Having the two sets be strongly associated with one of two cultural traditions would certainly add to the Mystery that Mages in Egypt, Greece, and India could deal with in their attempts to reconcile their respective beliefs with "foreign magic". On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with mixing and matching the sets together. The Weret-Hekau might place more distinction on the Subtle Arcana (regardless of whether one's Path was of the Soul or of the World), while the Greek and Indian cults identified more with the powers of the Gross Arcana (again, regardless of Path).

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    I don't have my copy of Legacies: the Ancient to check it; but from what I remember of them, that sounds about right.

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  • glamourweaver
    replied
    So for moving the elemental associations, the Anakalos would be Air, Areatos Earth (Tamers of Stone being architects fits well), Kleos the Akasha (it''s literally their Realm!), Maestros Flame, and Sophos Water?
    Last edited by glamourweaver; 05-08-2016, 11:54 AM.

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  • ganonso
    replied
    Inuits places names and concepts courtesy of the supplement for the Inue by John Scion ressources
    Udlormiut: Godrealm
    Adlivun: Watery Underworld
    Ukiuk: Frost

    Leave a comment:


  • Dataweaver
    replied
    I've updated the first post to include a “How to use these Paths” section.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dataweaver
    replied
    For most of them, I started with the “Path of…” names: Discovery, Excellence, Mastery, and Balance, then mangled them to end with “-os”. I originally did the same with Enlightenment, which gave me Diafos; but then Grytorm suggested Kleos, which apparently means “to hear” but has connotations of tales of glory.

    I'm not seeing the difficulty of integrating these into the Dark Eras; at least, it's no more trouble than integrating the official five Paths into the Dark Eras.

    It's worth noting that while an effort has been made in 2e to treat each of the five official Paths as equally reliant on both Ruling Arcana, there's still a bit of a bias toward the Subtle Arcana. When using all ten Paths, one option would be to play up this bias: call them the Subtle Paths or the Recondite Paths or the Paths of the Soul, or similar terms, and think of them being slightly lopsided: the Acanthus Rule Fate and Time; the Mastigos Rule Mind and Space; the Moros (“Path of Doom!”) Rule Death and Matter; the Obrimos Rule Prime and Forces; and the Thyrsus Rule Spirit and Life. There are no mechanical consequences for this, any more than there are any systemic distinctions between Subtle and Gross Arcana; it's purely a matter of one's mindset.

    But if you go with that mindset, then these “other five Paths” become “the Gross Paths”, “the Manifest Paths”, or “the Paths of the World”, with an equally slight bias toward their Gross Ruling Arcana: the Anakalos Rule Space and Fate; the Aretos Rule Matter and Prime; the Kleos Rule Time and Mind; the Mæstros Rule Forces and Spirit; and the Sophros Rule Life and Death.

    In To the Strongest, the Egyptian magi would latch on to the correlations between the Paths of the Soul and the Egyptian five-fold soul, whereas the Indo-greek magi might latch onto correlations between the Paths of the World and their notion of Elementalism (with the Elemental Mastery Legacies being based off of these new Paths rather than the original five). Each would have a mystery of five Paths that don't fit their model, and the two views would be complementary.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 05-08-2016, 01:22 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deionscribe
    replied
    I am definitely liking these alternative Paths. Maybe enough to incorporate them into my stuff so that I can feature a setup like the Ravnica Guilds for ten Paths.

    On the other hand, though, framing these Paths in the settings of Dark Eras might be somewhat difficult. Or, at least, require a lot of work. This might especially be the case for the Sundered World and To The Strongest, though for the latter I can see these Paths being alternative iterations of the Fivefold Soul (Acanthus and Anakalos being Ren, Mastigos and Kleos for Ba, etc.).

    Also, may I ask where you derived the names for these Paths? We know, for certain, that the present day names for the canon Paths originated from Greece, so I was curious which Greek words you used for this set.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dataweaver
    replied
    “Though Middle Eastern symbolism is obviously the orders' starting point for experimentation, mages seek other elements of Sleeper culture and occult practice that might have power.”

    OK; do the Inuit have something that could be used as a Realm name? Preferably something that wouldn't clash too horribly with calling the denizens “djinn”?

    Leave a comment:

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