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The Other Five Paths (2e)

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  • Can you think of some kind of supernatural creature that's symbolically linked to Ventures? I ask because while fitting ventures doesn't seem like a word describing a being you can talk to.


    “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
    My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
    Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

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    • I was originally going to use the term Bargainers; and that term may well serve for the Axios Entities of Space, the ones whose imagery tends to be along the lines of the demon, fae, or genie. Their defining feature is that they traffic in some sort of deal-making; and that when you make a deal with them, you need to be wary: they'll give you what you ask for, but not necessarily what you want. They're all infamous for sticking to the letter of the deal, as it were, while perverting the intent. Let the buyer beware. It's in that sense that they're Tricksters.

      On the other hand, trickster gods tend to also be benefactors for mankind: I mentioned Prometheus, but I've also seen Hermes described as a trickster god who also fosters trade, and coyote is apparently both a trickster and a benefactor in the Native American mythologies that feature him. In the Axios worldview, you might think of them as “investors”: they find humans who are down on their luck and give them the startup they need to make something of themselves. One might say that they're not doing so out of altruism, but rather to foster future trading partners and customers. So be it: the Axioi are never about altruism, but they can very much be about “growing the pie” so that everyone wins. (From the TaleSpin episode Citizen Khan: “I only desire money and power. Unpresentable employees give me neither.”)

      And these are Tricksters, too; it's just that they're tricksters in the sense of being clever and cunning in their largesse.


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      • Let the buyer beware isn't fitting at all, and while that might not be the *only* definition of Trickster it's the one that will first come to people's minds. Good Traders don't stick to the letter of the deal and screw you in the small print. They make a deal that you're happy with so that when they come back next time you'll be happy to trade with them again. Every MBA knows that brand image a key to success in the marketplace, and a brand that says "read the small print, twice, with a lawyer" is not a good brand.

        Also I don't think the idea of an adjective works either. The canon ones: Faeries, Demons, Angels, Shades, Beasts, Djinn. They're all nouns. It would be weird to have a Path who's Supernal Entities are a grab-bag of different cannon realms.


        “There are no rules. Only Principles and natural laws.” - Promethius
        My Homebrew no longer fits in a signature, you can find an index of it here.
        Full length fan-books I contributed too: Princess: the Hopeful, Leviathan: the Tempest, Dream Catchers

        Comment


        • Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
          Let the buyer beware isn't fitting at all, and while that might not be the *only* definition of Trickster it's the one that will first come to people's minds. Good Traders don't stick to the letter of the deal and screw you in the small print. They make a deal that you're happy with so that when they come back next time you'll be happy to trade with them again. Every MBA knows that brand image a key to success in the marketplace, and a brand that says "read the small print, twice, with a lawyer" is not a good brand.
          True. But it's also true that a group can end up with a bad reputation because of one bad actor. I'll grant that the “let the buyer beware” Tricksters give a bad name to the rest of them; and when I write them up, I'll emphasize that point. They do exist, and they are what most people think of first; but they're not representative of the average Trickster.

          Originally posted by The Kings Raven View Post
          Also I don't think the idea of an adjective works either. The canon ones: Faeries, Demons, Angels, Shades, Beasts, Djinn. They're all nouns. It would be weird to have a Path who's Supernal Entities are a grab-bag of different canon realms.
          Not a grab-bag, no. They're unified by a common trait that they share. In that regard, they're not really any different from the way demons were presented in the Tome of the Watchtowers:
          Pandemonium is often equated with the Jungian idea of the “Shadow” of the “collective unconscious” — that which is rejected, and hence identified with (but not necessarily identical to) rejects from the other Paths, i.e., fallen angels, Unseelie Fae, rabid beasts, evil dead, etc.
          As well: in Signs of Sorcery, angels, demons, fae, beasts, and shades aren't defined in terms of “how are they angelic, demonic, fae-like, bestial, or shady?" They're defined in terms of how they represent the principles of the Obrimos, Mastigos, Acanthus, Thyrsus, and Moros. That is, there's very little in there about what they look like and a lot about how they do things. Conceptually, that's more “adjective” than “noun”.

          That said, I'm not using adjectives, for the most part. Archetypes, Tricksters, and Vocalists are nouns; and Chthonics could easily be turned into Chthonians (but that's a separate debate).

          And finally, part of the difficulty comes from the fact that the Seven Seas draws on “Arabian Nights” sources which puts it in contention with the Mæstros, who have dibs on that source. Given that common source, the notion that Tricksters might take the form of genies despite the overlap with the Djinn isn't terribly surprising.

          And finally, the notion of the common thread of Bargainers between demons, faeries, and genies was in the back of my head when I first conceived the Axios. I've always seen that Path as a conceptual extension of Changeling's Pledges, Demon's Pacts, and Exalted's Eclipse Caste anima banner.


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          • Here's an idea for the special beings the Traders would call upon.

            Egregores, a sort of collective tulpa or emergent psychic entity from the interactions of individuals or a sort of mindset or line of reasoning that a collective follows. There's a number of different definitions implied when people were talking about them online.

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            • Hmm… I definitely like the ability of an Egregore to serve as a stand-in for a whole group of people: negotiate with Uncle Sam instead of the millions of United States citizens, or Santa Claus instead of the multitude of children who believe in him. I'm not sure that this would be unique to the Traders, though: I could see the Sages and the Sorcerers dealing with Egregores, too, with the Sages dealing with Zeitgeist. And Archetypes, the Supernal Entities of the Artisans, are also sometimes described as a kind of Egregore.


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              • Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                Hmm… I definitely like the ability of an Egregore to serve as a stand-in for a whole group of people: negotiate with Uncle Sam instead of the millions of United States citizens, or Santa Claus instead of the multitude of children who believe in him. I'm not sure that this would be unique to the Traders, though: I could see the Sages and the Sorcerers dealing with Egregores, too, with the Sages dealing with Zeitgeist. And Archetypes, the Supernal Entities of the Artisans, are also sometimes described as a kind of Egregore.

                Wouldn't that be easy to confuse with the Order merit of the Mysterium ? How about Kia, its an equivalent that aludes to taming chaos via Fate. It could be the equivalent of using Trades to set order to the inherent "logistical mess and unaccounted resources" of the Tapestry.


                New experiences are the font of creativity, when seeking inspiration, break your routine.

                The Agathos Kai Sophos, an Acanthus Legacy of strategists (Mind/Time)
                The Szary Strażnik, an Obrimos Legacy of Scholars of the Glyphs of Fate (Fate/Prime)

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