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How flexible/dramatic are Nimbuses?

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  • Geckopirateship
    started a topic How flexible/dramatic are Nimbuses?

    How flexible/dramatic are Nimbuses?

    Nimbi? I'm not good with fancy plurals. Anyway, are there limits to how you can narrate a Nimbus manifesting? Could it appear as a ghostly figure that steps forward and casts the spell? Could it appear as a phantasmal creature representing the spell? Could it cause armor or weapons to appear on the Mage as a representation of the spell's effect? As a very specific example, could I narrate that an Obrimos forces spell issues forth from an array of shimmering golden cannons that fire with the sounds of trumpets, instead of just happening?

  • Geckopirateship
    replied
    Yeah, I'm sorry for going off on another rant, especially in the Mage section. This thread was really helpful.

    Leave a comment:


  • 2ptTakrill
    replied
    I don't know about wresting power from the God Machine, but if what you really want is the image/flavor of your Mage's magic resembling things like armor, cannon and mechanical limbs maybe what you should be looking at is the Shadow Persona merit. All of those things could be how your character views his/her magic and uses that image as a yantra.

    Leave a comment:


  • HaplessWithDice
    replied
    Originally posted by Geckopirateship View Post
    The God-Machine Chronicle literally describes people hacking the machine.

    Stigmatics don't gain or lose power from belief. If that were the case, they couldn't be created by accident.

    These things don't need "belief" to work. This is not Ascension. A piece of malfunctioning Infrastructure that will generate guns that shoot teeth if the blood of a virgin goat is spilled on it will work regardless of whether or not the person doing it believes in magic.

    This is offtopic, just wanted to clear that up. To bring things back, I prefer those two options because, to me, being a machine-worshipping fanatic who manages to wrestle a very limited and incredibly dangerous amount of power from obsessive studies and plans is more suited to the setting then "I blacked out and saw one of five things and now I shoot energy blasts."
    Stigmatics do not equal god machine cultists the first chapter fiction before the introduction of Demon clearly states that and proves it. Stigmatics seem more like the hackers, they accidentally stumbled upon something, were scared by it but in return got back door access.

    Cultists might have started off as Stigmatics but don't have to be. they can be people who were never scared by the machine who just worship it. They know the system codes and have admin access to some limited functions as long as it doesn't interfere with the plans of the machine or they are doing it's bidding. In whole though they get their power from the machine because it is granting it and it can take it away. I think I gave that trait to all cultists even human cultists of Papa wolf. Honestly it fits very fluffy wise and works wonderfully.

    Plus why worship the machine? Why not something else? Honestly the machine only needs to come up in Demon games, and in my other games well it only came up once in another as a McGuffin that was believed to be a machine created to make people into gods. It had deviated from it's original purpose but the series villains had managed to get the information and were in the process of becoming gods. So why be a cultist beholden to a machine god/the exarchs/some aliens/ made why not seek a path to true understanding? Why allow yourself to be chained down? though religion is common for Obromos it isn't for any other mages. A under taker fascinated by death and making the dead as lifelike as possible might just see though the illusions of death in this world and become a Moros. A master handyman, who uses techniques he learned from amish craftsmen who perfected the art of carpentry is also just as likely to become a moros. Neither of them have anything to do with religion.

    A police officer sworn to serve his fellow man, is also likely to become an orbrimos because justice and order become the obsessions that he uses to reach through the barrier of the lie and find the supernal. A Fire Fighter who risks his life going into burning buildings to pull people out, his courage and selflessness allow him to reach beyond the lie and emerge an Obrimos.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gullinbursti
    replied
    I'm not sure how insulting the core premise of the game line your topic is in really gets the discussion back on topic. I mean I could just as easily describe Mage as being a game about Atlantis worshipping fanatics who wrestle a very limited and incredibly dangerous amount of power from obsessive studies and plans, but if you really dislike the entirety of Mage, why are you trying to force a square peg into a round hole. If you like aspects of the ChroD mechanics, hack something together for your own table. Ranting about how bad Mage is, in the Mage section of the forums, just seems like you're looking to fight and argue with people.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geckopirateship
    replied
    The God-Machine Chronicle literally describes people hacking the machine.

    Stigmatics don't gain or lose power from belief. If that were the case, they couldn't be created by accident.

    These things don't need "belief" to work. This is not Ascension. A piece of malfunctioning Infrastructure that will generate guns that shoot teeth if the blood of a virgin goat is spilled on it will work regardless of whether or not the person doing it believes in magic.

    This is offtopic, just wanted to clear that up. To bring things back, I prefer those two options because, to me, being a machine-worshipping fanatic who manages to wrestle a very limited and incredibly dangerous amount of power from obsessive studies and plans is more suited to the setting then "I blacked out and saw one of five things and now I shoot energy blasts."

    Leave a comment:


  • Satchel
    replied
    Originally posted by Geckopirateship View Post
    Gaining power from the machine is equivalent to hacking reality.
    Nope.

    The Machine does not care if you worship it or not. The Machine does not care what you think.
    Which is why, if It's paying you any mind whatsoever, your powers will likely as not stop working the way you want them to just as soon as they've accomplished what It's let you have them to do.

    God-Machine cultists, shockingly, are cultists. There's a Persistent Condition that specifically makes you more susceptible to the God-Machine's influence by virtue of how overly trusting you are of an enormous otherworldly force.

    Leave a comment:


  • lnodiv
    replied
    Originally posted by HaplessWithDice View Post

    But it isn't about that, cultists get their powers by praying for them faith is key because without faith the prayer fails. Not because it displeased but because the cultists doesn't think it will work, and thus it will fail.
    This isn't supported by any of the actual mechanics for cults. It's a nice thought, but Gecko is correct that that is not how any of it works.

    Leave a comment:


  • HaplessWithDice
    replied
    Originally posted by Geckopirateship View Post

    Nope. That's not how the Machine works. It isn't powered by faith or anything like that. Gaining power from the machine is equivalent to hacking reality. Stigmatics do not lose their powers if they lose faith in the Machine.

    The Machine does not care if you worship it or not. The Machine does not care what you think. The Machine simply Is. To suggest that you'd lose power derived from it if you didn't worship it is like saying that light bulbs only work if you worship electricity. I suggest you read Demon. The Machine is not a deity. The Machine Is.
    But it isn't about that, cultists get their powers by praying for them faith is key because without faith the prayer fails. Not because it displeased but because the cultists doesn't think it will work, and thus it will fail.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geckopirateship
    replied
    Originally posted by HaplessWithDice View Post

    A God-Machine cultist can't question and keep his powers though. His powers are based on his faith in the Machine. If he loses that faith or if it wavers for even a second, or has the slightest fluctuation he loses power, maybe not all of it but quite a bit of it.

    An Obrimos can question and keep his power, his faith can wane, wonder, he can allow himself to fall from his faith he can modify it, because it isn't his source of power it's how he first perceived the world of magic. Ammon can question if magic truly was a gift from Heavenly Father, or if it is a power that man is not meant to have yet who's origins lie elsewhere?
    Nope. That's not how the Machine works. It isn't powered by faith or anything like that. Gaining power from the machine is equivalent to hacking reality. Stigmatics do not lose their powers if they lose faith in the Machine.

    The Machine does not care if you worship it or not. The Machine does not care what you think. The Machine simply Is. To suggest that you'd lose power derived from it if you didn't worship it is like saying that light bulbs only work if you worship electricity. I suggest you read Demon. The Machine is not a deity. The Machine Is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ashenrogue
    replied
    Originally posted by Geckopirateship View Post
    I'm mostly trying to work the Nimbus to be more dramatic because I'm trying to like Mage and part of that is finding a way to make spellcasting interesting and flavorful. My current problem is that there are no character concepts I have for Mage that I wouldn't enjoy more elsewhere. I still haven't come up with a reason why, say, I'd want to make an Obrimos instead of a Demon or a God-Machine cultist.
    Let me be frank with you. I don't think what you're doing is actually trying to like Mage. What you're doing is trying to turn Mage into something you like. There's a pretty big difference there. You don't need to like Mage, it doesn't have to be your cup of tea. If you would enjoy playing the character concepts you like elsewhere, don't try to force it into the confines of Mage, just go enjoy it using the mediums you would enjoy them best at.

    Hell, I don't like D&D 3.5, and that seems to be one of the most widely popular pen and paper RPGs out there. I've tried to like it, but the mechanics just irritate me too much. Sure, I could try to Frankenstein the system into something completely different and maybe be halfway content with the results, but at the end of the day I save a lot of time, and frustration and then simply enjoy myself more by moving on to a different system that fits my preferences better.

    Now I'm not saying don't makes a few tweaks here and there to fix the occasional little thing you don't like, but if the game as a whole just isn't a fit for you it's usually better to just accept that it isn't your thing and proceed to enjoy the things that are.

    Leave a comment:


  • HaplessWithDice
    replied
    Originally posted by Geckopirateship View Post

    There's no reason why a God-Machine cultist or Stigmatic couldn't question and keep questioning, though. I know their powers come from different sources, that's not really relevant.
    A God-Machine cultist can't question and keep his powers though. His powers are based on his faith in the Machine. If he loses that faith or if it wavers for even a second, or has the slightest fluctuation he loses power, maybe not all of it but quite a bit of it.

    An Obrimos can question and keep his power, his faith can wane, wonder, he can allow himself to fall from his faith he can modify it, because it isn't his source of power it's how he first perceived the world of magic. Ammon can question if magic truly was a gift from Heavenly Father, or if it is a power that man is not meant to have yet who's origins lie elsewhere?

    Leave a comment:


  • Geckopirateship
    replied
    Originally posted by HaplessWithDice View Post

    Your right in that a Machine Cultist and a Obrimos can both summon angelic beings, the Seraph and Cherubim that the Orbrimos summons though have nothing to do with the God Machine they are natives of Aether. They are Supernal beings, and my character Ammon is an Obrimos. I could never see him as a God Machine Cultist. Ammon questions the role of magic and it's relationship to divinity, he questions if using magic its self is damning to the soul or uplifting. He in his heart questions the rest of what the Pentacle says is true because to him, and his mind he has to ask if it is true? What about the things he knew to be true in his past how do those relate?

    A God machine cultist doesn't question, a Mage does, constantly. And once they find an answer, they've found the next question.
    There's no reason why a God-Machine cultist or Stigmatic couldn't question and keep questioning, though. I know their powers come from different sources, that's not really relevant.

    Leave a comment:


  • HaplessWithDice
    replied
    Originally posted by Geckopirateship View Post
    I'm mostly trying to work the Nimbus to be more dramatic because I'm trying to like Mage and part of that is finding a way to make spellcasting interesting and flavorful. My current problem is that there are no character concepts I have for Mage that I wouldn't enjoy more elsewhere. I still haven't come up with a reason why, say, I'd want to make an Obrimos instead of a Demon or a God-Machine cultist.
    Your right in that a Machine Cultist and a Obrimos can both summon angelic beings, the Seraph and Cherubim that the Orbrimos summons though have nothing to do with the God Machine they are natives of Aether. They are Supernal beings, and my character Ammon is an Obrimos. I could never see him as a God Machine Cultist. Ammon questions the role of magic and it's relationship to divinity, he questions if using magic its self is damning to the soul or uplifting. He in his heart questions the rest of what the Pentacle says is true because to him, and his mind he has to ask if it is true? What about the things he knew to be true in his past how do those relate?

    A God machine cultist doesn't question, a Mage does, constantly. And once they find an answer, they've found the next question.

    Leave a comment:


  • Geckopirateship
    replied
    I'm mostly trying to work the Nimbus to be more dramatic because I'm trying to like Mage and part of that is finding a way to make spellcasting interesting and flavorful. My current problem is that there are no character concepts I have for Mage that I wouldn't enjoy more elsewhere. I still haven't come up with a reason why, say, I'd want to make an Obrimos instead of a Demon or a God-Machine cultist.

    Leave a comment:

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