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Space 2, does anyone do without it?

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  • #16
    For the people who always have Space 2 in their groups and games, when running, do NPCs always have it?

    Originally posted by Yossarian View Post
    That being said, I went all in on Space and Spirit, so I had kind of an odd combination.
    That does sound odd, how and what did you do?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by nofather View Post
      What do you see them using it for? Just casting beyond sensory range? Does it come up that much?

      I suppose the advantage I could see is being able to cast from a demesne.
      Casting from a demesne really doesn't benefit sympathetic magic all that much - aside from its use as a Yantra, really, or if you're casting on another demesne.

      Casting at sympathetic range is categorically casting outside the Verge/Demesne, and so does not benefit from the Paradox-free environment therein.

      And yes, sympathetic range does come up quite a lot.


      We don't allow mages to cast spells, since this is the most unbalancing rule of all.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Jachra View Post
        And yes, sympathetic range does come up quite a lot.
        A decent amount less now that "remote viewing" is a distinct range modifier with no Arcanum requirement, I'd think.


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        • #19
          Originally posted by nofather View Post

          That does sound odd, how and what did you do?
          I ended up doing a lot of remote viewing and searching for sympathetic connections, and a loooooooot of stepping sideways. And this was at a time when the systems for Space seriously did not want you to ever be able to make useful portals, short of Mastery, so I often felt strangely limited...

          I did like the weird combo, though. I specifically chose those because they're almost never what I gravitate to for Arcana when I play a mage. And he ended up being a favourite character of mine.



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          • #20
            Originally posted by Jachra View Post
            Casting from a demesne really doesn't benefit sympathetic magic all that much - aside from its use as a Yantra, really, or if you're casting on another demesne.

            Casting at sympathetic range is categorically casting outside the Verge/Demesne, and so does not benefit from the Paradox-free environment therein.
            You also don't need to use a Reach to turn a spell from ritual casting to instant, since you can cast at your leisure. So some better yantra bonuses than you might get out of tools, and an extra Reach.

            But aside from distance those seem like the only benefits to casting at range, which is why I'm surprised that it seems like a necessity to most mage players seem to think it's a must have. It's similar to the sniper thing. Does everyone's character have many dots in Firearms and a specialty in Rifles? Because you get the same advantage of distance and safety by shooting people from a thousand feet away rather than within a range they can retaliate from, unless they too are also snipers. Please note I said similar, not identical, as there's obviously much more you can do with the magic of Awakening than a rifle.

            I'm taking it this is not just about casting on enemies?

            Yossarian Interesting, for some reason when I was thinking about it 'spirit zoos' came to mind, with ample use of ban dividing everything.
            Last edited by nofather; 10-25-2016, 07:56 AM.

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            • #21
              I made a Legacy based on Prime/Space, so guilty as well.


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              • #22
                Originally posted by Juhn View Post
                I don't think I've ever played in a game where everyone takes Space 2. Typically we let the Mastigos do Space, and deal with it as an interesting limitation if the Mastigos doesn't happen to be available for the current session. I've had games where other people take Space, but that was typically worked into specific plans they had (like the Acanthus who wanted to be able to integrate Space into his postcognitions and divinations).
                As a followup, I'll note that I'm usually playing the Mastigos in my group, which has a couple of consequences: firstly, I tend to think more about the potential of the Space Arcanum as a whole (and was usually more interested in using it for doing weird things with geometry and vectors, rather than just wards, teleports, portals, and scrying - and was overjoyed when 2e canonized that aspect of Space rather than forcing me to argue with my Storytellers that yes, Space can do things like that); secondly, when I'm not playing Mastigos, being without my usual Ruling Arcana is part of the challenge. I already know a bunch of cool, interesting things I can do with Space, but not having space means I need to figure out cool, interesting things I can do with, say, Prime.

                I still have a hard time keeping my mouth shut when I can see obvious Space-based solutions our Mastigos player for that game is missing, which is a failing of mine. I'm working on it.

                I should ask the people in my groups who don't usually play Mastigos what they think of Space 2. I know only the one of them bothered picking it up as a supplementary Arcanum in our last game, and prpecisely none of them picked a Legacy that made it Ruling (of course, the one who did was the same guy who picked a Legacy that granted Forces so he'd have no Inferior...)

                As an additional note, I've never seen the ability to act remotely via magic as a prerequisite for it really feeling like magic. Most of the time when I think of magic I think of doing weird stuff in the here and now. Scrying itself is an exception, but things like having to meet a witch's eyes for her to cast a hex on you, the enchanter having to talk to you in person where you can hear his voice for him to put you under his spell, or a wizard calling down lightning from the sky to smite his foes... the wizard calling down lightning from the sky to smite his foes while sitting around three towns away from said foes (or worse yet, countries away) feels less like what I'd usually think of when I think of someone doing magic, honestly.

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                • #23
                  An important question to ask: Does the target of a sympathetic ritual spell feel the "build-up"?

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                  • #24
                    In answer to the original question, I've only been in one chronicle so far, and it is currently on hold. We're still in the early portion of the game, so players haven't had the chance to branch out much. So, no, no one else has taken any dots of Space yet (I'm playing the mastigos).

                    That being said, the storyteller doesn't understand the draw to Space that I have, and he's the person that brought us all together. So I kind of have my work cut out for me. Or in other words, my group could potentially be biased against it (apart from me, of course).
                    Last edited by Falcon777; 10-25-2016, 01:07 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Axelgear View Post
                      An important question to ask: Does the target of a sympathetic ritual spell feel the "build-up"?
                      They don't, because until a spell has been cast it's all just a vivid mental construct in a Mage's mind.

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                      • #26
                        So they can't be counterspelled? There's another bonus.

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                        • #27
                          In order to counterspell you need to use your active mage sight while watching the mage that's doing the casting.

                          Just being the target of a spell does not allow for counterspell regardless of how the spell is cast (ritual, instant, sensory, sympathetically). You also don't feel spells while they're being cast unless, as stated above, you watch the caster with your active mage sight. You'd feel in your peripheral mage sight when a spell has taken effect (even if it's cast using sympathetic range) but by then it's too late for counterspell.
                          Last edited by Tessie; 10-25-2016, 02:14 PM. Reason: Slightly better wording.


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                          • #28
                            I end up taking it because I play filthy Mastigoi characters. Hasn't been a pick pickup in my campaign, though.


                            My ideas are bad and I should feel bad.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by nofather View Post
                              So they can't be counterspelled? There's another bonus.
                              For all intents and purposes, no they can't be, you have to be looking with AMS in the right place to notice the Sympathetic link being connected and acted on in the same split second that the spell is occurring.

                              This is a good reason to take Space 1 and periodically check your Sympathetic connections, but you could just as easily be nailed by a sensory range spell by a guy reading a newspaper at a cafe down the street, so...good luck.

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                              • #30
                                Walking around with Ward at least gives you a Clash anytime someone targets you sympathetically. That's something.


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