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On the Spontaneous Arising of Non-Iremite Mummies

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  • On the Spontaneous Arising of Non-Iremite Mummies

    ...Or, What Happens When You Poke Fate With A Stick.

    The Deceived character book presents an Apotheosis scenario of tortured servitude to demented memory-ghosts for an arguably better, but certainly more peaceful, servitude to Fate itself, with said Arisen being called to action when (and in some cases, where) Fate wills.

    My supposition: that with the Shan'iatu/Judges of Duat/whoever creating the Arisen (as in, actually making such a thing possible in the first place), they gouged a hole in the fabric of existence, leaving a void to be filled/a channel to be used. Now further supposing that Fate can, on some level, make decisions (which is somewhat implied by the aforementioned situation with the Deceived), then could it not be possible Fate Itself to decree (ha!) that a given situation is suitable enough that a new Arisen could be created? Furthermore, is it not possible that this new being could, absent any interference save (again) that of Fate Itself, develop abilities with basis, effects, and imagery, unlike anything the Custodians of Irem have ever seen before?

    And if such a thing as all this is possible, then the question becomes "Why would such a thing happen?".

    I believe that an answer as good as any regarding such an unknowable force as Fate can be summed up as "Because they pissed it off ."

    The End Result? Ghost Jaguars raiding museums of mesoamerican antiquities and sudden rains of sakura blossoms rendering cultists too stunned at the perfect beauty of the moment to defend their mistress.

  • #2
    I maintain that the Rite of Return was a singular occult act that required the ritual sacrifice of an entire empire to fuel it at the direct behest of some godlike supernatural entities whose origins we don't truly understand, and that duplicating that is both silly and undermines the fundamental loneliness and temporal distance that the Arisen experience that provides some of the thematic core of the game.

    But I'm no fun.


    Just call me Lex.

    Female pronouns for me, please.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, in the first place I don't see Fate being that sentient or self-willed as you describe. It's not a task leader summoning the undead for its top secret cosmic missions.

      In the second place, though, if Fate were more sentient then I don't think it would create new mummies as its agents. Those Deceived that it uses are some of their most valued servants, but I think that's a coincidence...or, given the topic of discussion, a 'circumstance' of fate. All I mean is that they're more like adopted servitors.

      Were I going to introduce beings who were more directed by and in tune with Fate I would look to some horrifying Sam Araya versions of Norns and Moirae

      Comment


      • #4
        Worth noting: In canon, there is exactly one Ascended mummy. And he's not a Deceived.

        Fatewalkers are a possibility in the setting, but for now Mummy's Fate just does shit by virtue of being The Way Things Are (And Were Always Going To Be).

        All other notes are true. It's worth noting that mummies are aberrations of nature and a defiance of fate-hell, that's why they can defy fate.*

        *As conceived of in the Curse sense, as opposed to Lost or Awakening.


        Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
        Working on:The Hedge
        The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Kino's Journey

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd say Fate prefers having mundane actors, who may or may not have peculiar abilities regarding Sekhem and Relics, be positioned in just the right time and just the right space so they can screw up the still-loyal servants of the Shan'iatu. Which is kinda similar to how the God-Machine's Infrastructure work.

          Employing Fatewalkers would be something like dispatching Sidereal Exalted to a scene that could have been fixed by a pattern spider tying up some loose knots here and there. (Note: I don't know that much of Exalted lore, so shoot me if the analogy is weird)

          By the way, are "Fatewalkers" an official name for liberated Deceived?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
            I'd say Fate prefers having mundane actors, who may or may not have peculiar abilities regarding Sekhem and Relics, be positioned in just the right time and just the right space so they can screw up the still-loyal servants of the Shan'iatu. Which is kinda similar to how the God-Machine's Infrastructure work.

            Employing Fatewalkers would be something like dispatching Sidereal Exalted to a scene that could have been fixed by a pattern spider tying up some loose knots here and there. (Note: I don't know that much of Exalted lore, so shoot me if the analogy is weird)

            By the way, are "Fatewalkers" an official name for liberated Deceived?
            Nah, that's just me.


            Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
            Working on:The Hedge
            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Kino's Journey

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
              Nah, that's just me.
              Oh. Well, I'm still stealing it if I ever have to come up with a name for them. (I was pondering "Liberated" myself)

              Comment


              • #8
                I don't think Fate is enough of anything other than an inscrutable cosmic force to make servants for itself. Near as I can tell, the Rite of Return was stapling something onto its tide rather than any sort of pact with that, and that free of the influences of the Judges and Shan'iatu, it's what remains for an Arisen to be anchored to rather than the new boss that has selected them. Fate seems content to work through coincidences, and less the "what are the odds that I have the one Relic that can kill this thing?" sort of coincidences over "what if one Arisen woke up four years before the Sothic Turn should've woken them up and we see what happens?" situation.


                Just call me Lex.

                Female pronouns for me, please.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                  *As conceived of in the Curse sense, as opposed to Lost or Awakening.
                  So, 3 Fates walk into a bar... wait a minute.

                  I wonder which Fate each gameline would correspond to?


                  Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                  Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                    I maintain that the Rite of Return was a singular occult act that required the ritual sacrifice of an entire empire to fuel it at the direct behest of some godlike supernatural entities whose origins we don't truly understand, and that duplicating that is both silly and undermines the fundamental loneliness and temporal distance that the Arisen experience that provides some of the thematic core of the game.

                    But I'm no fun.
                    And I'm no fun back the other way. Cause I continue to believe that one can take all of these things into account and still introduce various variations on the Arisen from one ancient culture or another without doing harm to any of the established backstory or themes. The trick is numbers and intensity. One doesn't NEED to introduce another magic empire to be swallowed up in some fantastic rite that produces hundreds to thousands (we don't have a firm number of Arisen, so the precise scale created in the Rite is open to interpretation) of resurrected corpses. The canon already has vessels produced in other ancient eras by individuals with no apparent connection to Irem. The canon can support individual sorcerers who discover a trickle more about the nature of Sekhem, enough to replicate something akin to the Rite on a smaller scale with aspects unique to the culture and region. Something that produces at most dozens of entities rather than hundreds. Enough to watch over a forgotten city or serve a single dynasty of kings. Rare enough to keep an Arisen's existence lonely and not be a true rival to old Irem. Unique enough to inject more variety into the beings the Arisen encounter, threaten, and befriend.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nothri View Post

                      And I'm no fun back the other way. Cause I continue to believe that one can take all of these things into account and still introduce various variations on the Arisen from one ancient culture or another without doing harm to any of the established backstory or themes. The trick is numbers and intensity. One doesn't NEED to introduce another magic empire to be swallowed up in some fantastic rite that produces hundreds to thousands (we don't have a firm number of Arisen, so the precise scale created in the Rite is open to interpretation) of resurrected corpses. The canon already has vessels produced in other ancient eras by individuals with no apparent connection to Irem. The canon can support individual sorcerers who discover a trickle more about the nature of Sekhem, enough to replicate something akin to the Rite on a smaller scale with aspects unique to the culture and region. Something that produces at most dozens of entities rather than hundreds. Enough to watch over a forgotten city or serve a single dynasty of kings. Rare enough to keep an Arisen's existence lonely and not be a true rival to old Irem. Unique enough to inject more variety into the beings the Arisen encounter, threaten, and befriend.
                      But, as has been discussed to no resolution multiple times, how much do these beings mirror the Arisen's mechanics and powers? Why would they? And if they don't, why are we even calling them the same class of being?


                      Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                      Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
                        But, as has been discussed to no resolution multiple times, how much do these beings mirror the Arisen's mechanics and powers? Why would they? And if they don't, why are we even calling them the same class of being?
                        Sekhem is a universal force in the Mummy mythos,so effective means to infuse things or beings with Sekhem and the results of so doing, are going to have commonalities. And those with more commonalities will be more likely to ping a Deathless and their cult's list of things to look out for.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
                          Sekhem is a universal force in the Mummy mythos,so effective means to infuse things or beings with Sekhem and the results of so doing, are going to have commonalities. And those with more commonalities will be more likely to ping a Deathless and their cult's list of things to look out for.

                          Yes, things to look for. But the big question that this thread is about is non-Iremite mummies. Other cultures can (and have) harnessed Sekhem... but just using Sekhem is a long way from being able to whip up true immortals like the Arisen (and Deceived).

                          So, say you have culture X that has figured out how to harness Sekhem. Without the tutelage of crazy god-monsters. Say they even use it to preserve some champions in an undying state. Are these beings really Mummies? When so much of the underlying metaphysical structure is bound to be different?


                          Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                          Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So it appears that the two base arguments being made (and please correct me if I've missed any) are 1. Inscrutable as it is, Fate is not a decision-maker, but rather an impersonal force; and 2. The creation of the Arisen required an entire civilization's worth of life and effort, how could any other Deathless exist with less effort, much less by accident?

                            To answer these issues, let us consider the potential for non-Iremite Arisen in terms of cause and effect. The creation of the Arisen was a massive effect, a veritable supernatural atom bomb. Now, the cause has been well established (the sacrifice of Irem), and on the face of it, so has the effect (the Arisen). But, suppose the effect wasn't simply the Arisen themselves, but the very possibility that being such as the Deathless could exist in the first place (as my original hypothesis posited). To that end, and following the atom bomb analogy, if the direct consequences of the explosion are the creation of the Arisen (by the Shan'iatu's design) and Shuankhsen (by Ammut's machinations), then the drifting fallout on the wind would be the aforementioned unique Deathless.

                            Hypothetically, at least.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shkspr1048 View Post
                              So it appears that the two base arguments being made (and please correct me if I've missed any) are 1. Inscrutable as it is, Fate is not a decision-maker, but rather an impersonal force; and 2. The creation of the Arisen required an entire civilization's worth of life and effort, how could any other Deathless exist with less effort, much less by accident?

                              To answer these issues, let us consider the potential for non-Iremite Arisen in terms of cause and effect. The creation of the Arisen was a massive effect, a veritable supernatural atom bomb. Now, the cause has been well established (the sacrifice of Irem), and on the face of it, so has the effect (the Arisen). But, suppose the effect wasn't simply the Arisen themselves, but the very possibility that being such as the Deathless could exist in the first place (as my original hypothesis posited). To that end, and following the atom bomb analogy, if the direct consequences of the explosion are the creation of the Arisen (by the Shan'iatu's design) and Shuankhsen (by Ammut's machinations), then the drifting fallout on the wind would be the aforementioned unique Deathless.

                              Hypothetically, at least.

                              A valid supposition (considering what we know about the details of the Rite of Return).

                              Though the question remains how close would these hypothetical non-Irem Arisen be to Irem Arisen mechanically. Pillars? Unlikely (too rooted in Iremite theology and metaphysics). Utterances? Fine... except there would need to be an alternate way to power them (see Pillars). Judges? Unlikely, I'd think.


                              Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                              Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

                              Comment

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