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  • Iremite Sobek

    Is there anything in Iremite cosmology that could be the equivalent of the crocodile-god Sobek? Mummy has such a rich and intricate mythos that I can't recall whether or not any such calque exists. I suppose Ammut fulfills some of that crocodilian aesthetic, but her role is a bit different from how Sobek is classically portrayed: as a god of fertility, protection, and the Nile, but also an aggressive and violent being, he who loves robbery, etc.

    You could maybe make an interesting Mummy story out of a rumor of a sixth Decree of crocodile-headed Arisen.

  • #2
    I actually proposed mysterious Crocodile-Headed Arisen in a thread here ages ago. Great minds, eh?


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    Female pronouns for me, please.

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    • #3
      What if Sobek can in some way rescue Shuankhsen from the grip of Ammut? They'd still be lifeless, just a bit less so (fertility); they'd be safe from Ammut (protection), and it's the ultimate robbery. Presumably the Shuankhsen in question would still have their grudge against the Deathless, so that's violence down. What would he want with them, though? Might fertility and the Nile be a coded reference to this world, without fussing over Duat or Aaru, and Sokek wants Sekhem to stay in the world that spawned it - no feeding relics to the Shan'iatu - so the stolen and kept safe from the Deathless?

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      • #4
        I feel that undermines the themes of the Shuankhsen. They're the rotten bottom that the Arisen might become; there shouldn't be a way out of that.

        There's many gods in Egyptian mythology and not all of them have a role in Mummy's mythology*. He might be an aspect of Ammut, even...kinda like Scion 2e where, what, Hathor and Sekhmet are the same deity?


        *stop having fun guys!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by reseru View Post
          There's many gods in Egyptian mythology and not all of them have a role in Mummy's mythology*. He might be an aspect of Ammut, even...kinda like Scion 2e where, what, Hathor and Sekhmet are the same deity?
          That's the case in popular Egyptian myth; Scion's Netjer preview currently has Sekhmet as an aspect of Bast and Hathor as an aspect of Isis, though that may well change due to fan response.
          Last edited by marin; 01-04-2017, 08:01 AM.


          Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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          • #6
            Mummy obviously proposes an ancient ur-culture with advanced metaphysical beliefs, but if it were cleaving closer to the Egyptian inspiration, the Nameless pantheon would constantly be in flux. I like to suggest that many of the trappings of any give Nameless are in fact cultural and ascribed by worshipers. So, it's quite possible to identify 'The Serpent-Headed' as any number of Egyptian gods vaguely associated with serpents, depending on which teachings you follow. Including Sobek.

            Egypt was not a very stable place in terms of religion. The ever-shifting nature of ancient Egyptian religious beliefs is one of the more fascinating aspects about it IMO. Particularly in a game with themes of dogma and mystery, it could be very interesting to propose that the shape of the Nameless shifted considerably depending on what era of Irem one is speaking of...

            ... and none of this diminishes the Nameless, in theory. It's all just humans scrambling to understand.

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            • #7
              These are all good points. On the one hand, there's certainly no reason for a one-for-one translation of every aspect of Egyptian culture into Iremite. But on the other, crocodiles seem like such an important symbol to the region it would be criminal to ignore them in Mummy.

              According to Wikipedia, in the Middle Kingdom, Sobek was associated with Osiris, Isis, and Horus, and eventually became known as a solar deity, eventually becoming Sobek-Ra. That's kind of interesting. There's even a funny-looking Late Period statue of a crocodile with a falcon head. Also, in temples dedicated to him, priests would mummify crocodiles. Can you imagine running into one of those reanimated?

              Where might I find your Crocodile Headed, Lex?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by espritdecalmar View Post
                Where might I find your Crocodile Headed, Lex?
                139) The meret encounters an Arisen who claims to be Crocodile-Headed. It's easy to chalk this up to Memory or madness, but there /is/ something strange as hell about him, and he doesn't seem to be lying...

                (Maybe he'e a false Arisen from a later attempt at the Rite? Maybe he declared the Akh, the eternal unity of Ba and Ka? Maybe he's a ballsy Shuankhsen?)
                That's as far as I got.


                Just call me Lex.

                Female pronouns for me, please.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Piff View Post
                  Mummy obviously proposes an ancient ur-culture with advanced metaphysical beliefs, but if it were cleaving closer to the Egyptian inspiration, the Nameless pantheon would constantly be in flux. I like to suggest that many of the trappings of any give Nameless are in fact cultural and ascribed by worshipers. So, it's quite possible to identify 'The Serpent-Headed' as any number of Egyptian gods vaguely associated with serpents, depending on which teachings you follow. Including Sobek.

                  Egypt was not a very stable place in terms of religion. The ever-shifting nature of ancient Egyptian religious beliefs is one of the more fascinating aspects about it IMO. Particularly in a game with themes of dogma and mystery, it could be very interesting to propose that the shape of the Nameless shifted considerably depending on what era of Irem one is speaking of...

                  ... and none of this diminishes the Nameless, in theory. It's all just humans scrambling to understand.
                  The Iremite faith most closely resembles the Old Kingdom faith of the Ennead at Heliopolis, with emphasis obviously shifted to the proto-Maat judges and a liberal reinterpretation of mythology related to Set and Osiris. That being said, Atum and Khepri are said in the Avarice myth to conceive an untold number of lesser gods before the birth of the 42 "gods above gods" and Set. So there's your window. The easiest option is to declare Sobek one of these unnamed gods and go from there. His relationship with Set and Osiris and the Sheniatu will have to be filled in by your imagination and any suggestions you like from this thread. Option B is to try to shoe horn Sobek into one of the established Nameless Animals- the Nameless Serpent is probably your best choice just by virtue of being a reptile. But trust me when I say this is not as easy as it sounds, especially if you are a perfectionist like me and want to constantly twist the mythology into something that fits both the Egyptian myths and the stuff Mummy made up for the game. My advice: Don't be like me. Take the easy route. Personally I see Sobek as a Cthulhu/Dagon figure thanks to the Lizard Brain from Urban Legends. But that's just me.

                  I would actually object to the stability comment. One thing that is so captivating about Egypt is how much of their architecture, traditions, and society remain consistent despite three big upheavals to their civilization. I mean...there are differences between the Old, Middle and New Kingdom for certain, but arguably they are more subtle than, say, the differences between the Han and Ming Dynasty of China (to pick two random ages off the top of my head from a culture that arguably has a similar sort of longevity and staying power regarding traditions and society). Its true that Egypt had a LOT of gods and that the most powerful or state Cult changed from one age (and one Dynasty) to the next. But for all that, I see enormous stability in the culture. I think the key was in how flexible the religion was. Egypt united from numerous tribes. Most of the ancient cities up and down the Nile had their home grown gods and cults as well as "interstate" gods in common with their neighbors. The practice of combining gods into a single entity was genius in this regard. "Oh, so...your most important local deity is...Bob. Huh. Okay. Sure. Fine. Now he's Bob-Amun-Ra. So locally you get to keep all your local traditions and practices and your Bob gets to stay all important in this city, and at the same time you are still giving loyalty and respect (and cash and manpower, of course) to the Pharaoh and the major god of the nation!" Its a trick the Greeks would make good use of when they combined many of their gods with foreign conquests (including popular Egyptian gods!), and wouldn't you know it the Romans were quick to adopt the same practice.

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                  • #10
                    well, I have worked my own personal interpretation for Sobek, making him into an incarnation of the Rivers birthed from Sutek. In my own head canon, he is a force of creation and destruction, giving birth to civilization and devouring it when its time comes, so nothing would be lost to the Devourer. Irem's destruction and the Rite of Return has created an eternal culture, and as such he spent millennia at trying to absorb its relics and erase its existence from the world. I've actually thought about that idea before Dreams of Avarice, but I think that the book actually gave me more material for me to work with than invalid the idea, but I'm biased about that :P


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