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does the Duat "still" exist?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Michael View Post
    There's a reference to 'an airless landscape where the stars are wrong', that's it.
    Although it's interesting to bring it up in the context of Mummy, Starry A'aru is actually already referred to in To The Strongest as the Egyptian name for the Supernal.
    Except it's not. There's only two mentions of A'aru in that text and neither convinces me to believe it's a synonym for the Supernal. Compare to starry A'aru, which is described as a barren wasteland in Dreams of Avarice, a description very similar to 'airless landscape', and the 'stars are wrong' is suspiciously close to the near-constant 'starry' title given to the place.

    Originally posted by logos View Post
    Given the extent of the Arcana system, this just straight up seems unlikely. Does it belong to an Arcanum outside of the 10 Arcana? Can it only be understood using 'unveiling' practices of a sixth Arcanum or higher? Because if not, there is no reason to assume mages wouldn't know all about it. Mage is all about learning. The only reason they wouldn't know something is if they couldn't.
    If Mages knew everything then the whole premise of the game and its Mysteries would be moot

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    • #17
      Originally posted by logos View Post

      Given the extent of the Arcana system, this just straight up seems unlikely. Does it belong to an Arcanum outside of the 10 Arcana? Can it only be understood using 'unveiling' practices of a sixth Arcanum or higher? Because if not, there is no reason to assume mages wouldn't know all about it. Mage is all about learning. The only reason they wouldn't know something is if they couldn't.
      I'd love to hear which Arcana you think Sekhem falls under.


      Remi. she/her. game designer.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Dave Brookshaw View Post
        Spoiler for Dark Era Companion:

        Just as mages call Duat a Lower Depth, that being a descriptive term used for it based on its characteristics but basically also an admission of ignorance, Arisen contextualize the Awakened into their worldsview as imposing ma'at (in the predynastic sense of "cosmic-imposed order or direction" without the later connotations of justice it picked up after item) from Aa'ru.

        In other words, according to the Arisen, starry Aa'ru is the Supernal Realm.

        Which raises all sorts of questions about the never-answered open question of what happens to souls when they die.
        Whoa. And the rulers of Starry Aa'ru are the 42 Judges of Life, who might be Exarchs. If that's true (which I'm not saying that that's canon or anything - just spitballing here), then the Temakh could be a bit like extremely powerful and rebellious Ochemata.

        Aaargh, I'm really eager to get my hands on the DE Companion!!!
        Last edited by Octavo; 02-13-2017, 10:34 PM.


        Mage: the Ascension - Redesigned Prime Sphere; Streamlined Wonder Creation
        Mummy: the Curse - Lightweight 2E Conversion; Disciples of Duat

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Octavo View Post

          Whoa. And the rulers of Starry Aa'ru are the 42 Judges of Life, who might be Exarchs. If that's true (which I'm not saying that that's canon or anything - just spitballing here), then the Temakh could be a bit like extremely powerful and rebellious Ochemata.

          Aaargh, I'm really eager to get my hands on the DE Companion!!!
          I love how this theory fits together almost as much as I hate the idea that the Shan'iatu were ever human.


          Remi. she/her. game designer.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

            I'd love to hear which Arcana you think Sekhem falls under.
            If I had to pick I would say Death and Fate, but Life and Time might also fit.

            Let's collectively remember that while Duat and A'aru are otherwordly places intimately connected to the Deathless, Sekhem is a force of this material, Fallen world

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            • #21
              Originally posted by reseru View Post
              If I had to pick I would say Death and Fate, but Life and Time might also fit.

              Let's collectively remember that while Duat and A'aru are otherwordly places intimately connected to the Deathless, Sekhem is a force of this material, Fallen world
              I'd say Fate and Life, which has me wonder what a Path Awakened to a Realm of Sekhem might look like.


              Remi. she/her. game designer.

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              • #22
                I think I'm with you. Mummies are ruled by Death, but that doesn't mean Sekhem is.

                Life and Fate it is. After all, it is the force that brings mummies back from the grave

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by reseru View Post
                  Except it's not. There's only two mentions of A'aru in that text and neither convinces me to believe it's a synonym for the Supernal.
                  I'm not sure I'm following. I mean, the text directly states that A'aru is the name given to the Supernal by the Weret-Hakau.

                  Compare to starry A'aru, which is described as a barren wasteland in Dreams of Avarice, a description very similar to 'airless landscape', and the 'stars are wrong' is suspiciously close to the near-constant 'starry' title given to the place.
                  I think you're seeing patterns in random noise.


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                  • #24
                    Ah, only now do I see it. Previously I was only reading through the Weret-hekau section and not the cosmology section that talks about the realms above.

                    I guarantee I'm not the only one that read the 'airless landscape' line as a shout-out to Mummy, though. It seems too similar for coincidence, and it would be pretty careless, in my opinion, if such a similar description was just written in as a throw away line for a section all of two sentences long.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by reseru View Post
                      I guarantee I'm not the only one that read the 'airless landscape' line as a shout-out to Mummy, though. It seems too similar for coincidence, and it would be pretty careless, in my opinion, if such a similar description was just written in as a throw away line for a section all of two sentences long.
                      You're probably not. I mean, when I read it I immediately saw why you'd think that. However, if you think about this it's not actually similiar. You're just seeing a negative description of a landscape in close proximity to a mention of stars.

                      My reading of it would be that it's meant to be a different planet, one with no air and, due to being in a different part of the universe, different stars.
                      Last edited by Michael; 02-14-2017, 08:44 AM. Reason: too many actuallys


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

                        I'd love to hear which Arcana you think Sekhem falls under.

                        I've interpreted Sekhem as being Resonance, and I think that fits with the descriptions of it across Mummy and Dark Eras. In various concentrations, uses, and forms it's related to the Arcana of Life, Spirit, Mind, Prime, Death, and Fate, but no Arcana really governs it, only manipulating it indirectly.


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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by logos View Post

                          Given the extent of the Arcana system, this just straight up seems unlikely. Does it belong to an Arcanum outside of the 10 Arcana? Can it only be understood using 'unveiling' practices of a sixth Arcanum or higher? Because if not, there is no reason to assume mages wouldn't know all about it. Mage is all about learning. The only reason they wouldn't know something is if they couldn't.

                          There are a shitton of things in Heaven and Earth that aren't dreamt of in Awakened philosophy. There wouldn't really be a Mage if there weren't.


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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Michael View Post
                            You're just seeing a negative description of a landscape in close proximity to a mention of stars.
                            Which is literally 90% of the description we have of the barren wastes of starry A'aru lol

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by reseru View Post
                              Which is literally 90% of the description we have of the barren wastes of starry A'aru lol
                              Do you mean barren fields? You put text in italics as much as you want, it doesn't change the fact that they're not the same. Airless and barren are not synonyms. Starry and 'the stars are different' are not the same.

                              I've interpreted Sekhem as being Resonance, and I think that fits with the descriptions of it across Mummy and Dark Eras. In various concentrations, uses, and forms it's related to the Arcana of Life, Spirit, Mind, Prime, Death, and Fate, but no Arcana really governs it, only manipulating it indirectly.
                              That was my impression.


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                              • #30
                                I wouldn't rule out Mages not being familiar with all potential arcana either. In Mage, Lower Depth seems to have become the catchall term for realms which defy their understanding of the world of darkness. Could some of these have arcana that express themselves in ways that Mages couldn't grasp or understand, I would think it's possible. Heck, maybe touching on these alien arcana is what screws up Banishers

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