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  • #31
    Originally posted by Azahul View Post
    Which also puts A'aru as a Lower Depth, right? Since that's where the souls are meant to (at least originally) end up? I'll note that it's not entirely meaningless, but the general point I was getting at with my previous post (that there's a lot of baggage associated with the phrase "cast into the Lower Depths" as if it were some kind of hell, when it's more a kind of semi-scientific nomenclature) still stands if you can as easily argue both of Mummy's afterlives count.
    A'aru seems to be the Supernal, what with the Book of Names/Ages and what not.


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    • #32
      Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
      A'aru seems to be the Supernal, what with the Book of Names/Ages and what not.
      The Scroll of Ages? That was a concept believed in by the Sesha-Hebsu specifically, and so far as I know never associated with A'aru. It was more of a cosmic principle/philosophy than anything.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Azahul View Post
        The Scroll of Ages? That was a concept believed in by the Sesha-Hebsu specifically, and so far as I know never associated with A'aru. It was more of a cosmic principle/philosophy than anything.
        well, the Scroll of Ages is mentioned as a "thing" in Dreams of Avarice, being contained in A'aru and which contains all names of all things. It seems to be more than a mere "concept" used by the guilds.


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        • #34
          Originally posted by LostLight View Post
          well, the Scroll of Ages is mentioned as a "thing" in Dreams of Avarice, being contained in A'aru and which contains all names of all things. It seems to be more than a mere "concept" used by the guilds.
          Ah, it's been a while since I read Dreams of Avarice. I had forgotten that.

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          • #35
            I had always assumed that there were 3 flavors of reality:
            1. Realms that are complete (ie the Fallen Realm (physical+Shadow+Twilight+Supernal+dream-space (Always kind of seen those three as always occupying the same "space"... ish... or something)
            2. Side Realms that are connected like twigs/branches to the tree (Hedge/Mirror Realm, Time blips, Bolt Holes, various pocket Dimensions)
            3. And the Lower Depth Realms that are missing a fundamental "thing" and hunger it (Faerie (conflict), Hell (from the source book), Supernal, Abyss, Underworld (Plasm/ghosts), Duat (Sekhem), ETC)
            I've gone back and forth whether the Supernal is actually a Lower Depth (missing realities for its symbols) or just another layer to the complete realm (as the counterpart to the physicality of what the symbols represent.


            Does that still work w/ what Dave said on here? This is just how I've always seen it. (well not always, but more recently I mean.)



            Frequent Story Teller for the Circle of Five gaming group.

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            • #36
              Well, the Supernal isn't a place in the usual meaning. It's possible to enter the Supernal, but you do so as a set of symbols and you're almost guaranteed to dissolve into these symbols and not return. Also, it doesn't really lack anything. It requires the material to embody its symbols, but that's similar to the Shadow that requires the material to provide Resonances.
              The Underworld isn't a Lower Depth either. It's true that it sucks in ghosts, but it naturally generates Essence (which is what becomes Plasm when ghosts uses Manifestations) and isn't difficult at all to enter. Any mortal with the right knowledge can enter any naturally occuring Graveyard Gate with relative ease without any supernatural powers.


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              • #37
                Hmmm, Then I think the Supernal is prolly just as much a part of this realm as the Shadow or Twilight is.

                If it is true that the Underworld isn't a Lower Depth then I would likely place it in a similar grouping of half-realms like the Hedge. On the ease of getting to a realm, I posit that ease wouldn't necessarily preclude a realm from being a Lower Depth. Could be it's just "close to the surface" as it were. It's close in proximity to ours. All the same, hearing that it makes it's own energy and doesn't seem to really be hungry for anything and that it just... is would make it like a half step like the Hedge. A twig/branch of the tree but not really separate and not really one and the same from the main realm.

                And if it's neither than my whole idea on how it all works is wrong ^.^ and that's fine too. Still tho, this makes sense to me.



                Frequent Story Teller for the Circle of Five gaming group.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by xiongrey View Post
                  I've gone back and forth whether the Supernal is actually a Lower Depth (missing realities for its symbols) or just another layer to the complete realm (as the counterpart to the physicality of what the symbols represent.
                  We all have different ways of connecting the cosmology, but grouping the Supernal with the Lower Depths makes no sense. They're literally defined as opposites of each other: the Supernal is complete and the Lower Depths are empty or missing something essential.

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                  • #39
                    The underworld cannot be a lower depth, part of the definition of a lower depth is that normal people cannot possibly leave them because of their Lack. Arcadia also is unlikely to be a lower depth because of the same reason.


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                    • #40
                      I like thinking Arcadia is missing "actors" and the Gentry kidnap humans to take part in their stories. I'm pretty sure Dave has said it's not, though.

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                      • #41
                        Sounds like I need to rethink my cosmology.



                        Frequent Story Teller for the Circle of Five gaming group.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by reseru View Post
                          I like thinking Arcadia is missing "actors" and the Gentry kidnap humans to take part in their stories. I'm pretty sure Dave has said it's not, though.
                          I'd wondered if it might be stability - everything functions only because of bargains between inhabitants, and humans are needed to make those concrete. But Dave has also said that the Gentry aren't native to Arcadia - they arrived later. (And some of them are still elsewhere).

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                          • #43
                            Oh, yeah. I forgot he said that, too. I hope they do something with it in a supplement.


                            EDIT: Actually, don't changelings become true fae when their Clarity is low enough and Wyrd is high enough? So if Gentry are evolved changelings and changelings are originally human then it's no revelation to say the Gentry are foreigners to Arcadia. I thought Imperial Mysteries said they were in fact fallen from the Supernal, but that's a Mage supplement and, at any rate, I think that's been ret-conned.
                            Last edited by reseru; 08-12-2017, 02:24 AM.

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                            • #44
                              According to the current Changeling Devs the first Gentry exist because they made a deal with Arcadia to exist.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by reseru View Post
                                EDIT: Actually, don't changelings become true fae when their Clarity is low enough and Wyrd is high enough?
                                In 1e, getting your Wyrd as high as it would go was a prerequisite to tripping a narrative flag that started your Clarity on a fairly rapid slide downhill that culminated in you haring off to Arcadia to shed the last of your humanity.

                                I thought Imperial Mysteries said they were in fact fallen from the Supernal, but that's a Mage supplement and, at any rate, I think that's been ret-conned.
                                Imperial Mysteries gave an example of weird Supernal entities in the form of the Old Gods of Thistle, who hit a lot of the same descriptive notes as the True Fae and are bizarrely persistent in not staying cast out from the Supernal despite the atemporal nature of the Exarchs' mythic war on the Heavens — they might or might not have been the Supernal bases of the Gentry, but what they definitely weren't was solid proof that the Strangers were cast-out Platonic forms from the dawn of time.


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