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  • Originally posted by FallenEco View Post
    Well...depending how badly the Rite of Return broke time, it might be doable, but that is not among the information we have on 2e.

    I would not hold my breath.

    Yeah, Matthew made it sound like Mummies experience time non-linearly. So, it's possible but not probable they could experience time before they existed. However, I never read past the corebook in Mummy. So, Irem has always existed in some nebulous time for me without any actual year attached to it. And in that case, it works just fine if you put Irem early enough.

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    • Originally posted by Tessie View Post

      It wasn't a particularly good argument for playing a Chinchorro mummy in MTC, but then it really wasn't an argument for playing a Chinchorro mummy in MTC anyway. Just ArcaneArts pointing out that the recent podcast didn't add anything for that prospect that wasn't already present in 1e.
      I mean the original developer has gone on about the sort of realities of the cultures a mummy could have adopted along their incredibly long existences since at least the preview time period including the Con audio before Mummy was out so I don't know why people keep acting surprised.


      “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”

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      • Originally posted by Florin View Post


        Yeah, Matthew made it sound like Mummies experience time non-linearly. So, it's possible but not probable they could experience time before they existed. However, I never read past the corebook in Mummy. So, Irem has always existed in some nebulous time for me without any actual year attached to it. And in that case, it works just fine if you put Irem early enough.
        I think the "non-Linear Time" bit may be restricted to their Descents - so if you have a Flashback, you can just treat your character then as a continuation of your character "now", instead of having to figure out what your character would have been like (built) in that time period. And why all of that went away when you woke up "now".


        Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
        Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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        • Originally posted by Tessie View Post
          It wasn't a particularly good argument for playing a Chinchorro mummy in MTC, but then it really wasn't an argument for playing a Chinchorro mummy in MTC anyway.
          What I meant was that "Playing a deluded and amnesic Iremite mummy is basically the same as playing a Chinchorro one" is only ever going to sound convincing to those with no interest in playing a Chinchorro one. But anyway, the Chinchorro practice of mummification is too early to derive from Irem.

          Anyway, back to the Iremites.
          Originally posted by Konradleijon View Post
          I would like to see that Irem practice of forcing slaves to dig for gold

          And big companies forcing indigenous people to dig up cobalt Inst reallly different
          The parallels between Irem and now are one of my favourite things. Not just seeing echoes of the master/slave and exploitation dynamics, but Irem was a time of rapid technological growth, a revolution in communications, and a milieu were concepts were in common currency that hadn't existed a mere century before. It's a fascinating contrast to the future shock that most stories of immortals rely on, particularly those with punctuated lives like the Arisen.

          Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
          I think the "non-Linear Time" bit may be restricted to their Descents - so if you have a Flashback, you can just treat your character then as a continuation of your character "now", instead of having to figure out what your character would have been like (built) in that time period. And why all of that went away when you woke up "now".
          I think someone described it earlier as you kind of existing in all your Descents "at once," so you could pick up things from your future lives as well as your past ones. That doesn't sound like you'd be existing at any other time - but the question of whether it applies to an Arisen's mortal life is interesting - it makes sense that it wouldn't, though.

          There was something I'd wondered about earlier, but it fell by the wayside. To those who have listened to the podcast, particularly this bit:
          Originally posted by White Oak Dragon View Post
          You can invest your Pillars in your cultists. Doing so allows a cultist to access some of a mummy’s related powers, limited by the cultist’s tier. The tiers are:
          1. Ordinary mortals
          2. Sorcerers
          3. Immortals
          4. Sadikh
          ... did it sound like the "sorcerer" and "immortal" parts were things mummies could make someone into, the way they can a sadikh? Or would the cultist have to come by those conditions another way?


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          • Originally posted by Tessie View Post

            It wasn't a particularly good argument for playing a Chinchorro mummy in MTC, but then it really wasn't an argument for playing a Chinchorro mummy in MTC anyway. Just ArcaneArts pointing out that the recent podcast didn't add anything for that prospect that wasn't already present in 1e.
            Yep. Again, my positions are made pretty clear.

            Now I will point out that the specific post that warranted the response did not specifically call out being natively Chinchorro beyond possibly it's time frame, and some of the following conversation was basically more about valuing a different culture over Irem's, which is kind of already a big deal for Mummy-the world you live in as the Arisen is one with the benefit of hindsight, and a big part of how the game works is looking back at what you remember of the Nameless Empire through the critical lens of the societies and cultures they've taken part in and deciding whether things were better or right or true or "just the way things are" then or if it's a thing to escape from.

            In that vein of the last point, a mummy being(as in choosing to be) Chinchorro over being an Iremite is hella important, and with it understanding that you not only can but do have a period of your Descent where you don't inherently know that you're an Iremite, or what life in the Nameless Empire is like, and will thus more strongly associate with the cultures of your Descents is likewise important.


            Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
            Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.
            Currently Working On: The Noble and the Sovereign, Blog

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            • Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
              understanding that you not only can but do have a period of your Descent where you don't inherently know that you're an Iremite, or what life in the Nameless Empire is like, and will thus more strongly associate with the cultures of your Descents is likewise important.
              It's still a fancy way of saying "Your character can always just be amnesiac and deluded."

              Here's a question: if the Judge's are going to have a greater presence, if an insidious one, what does that mean for the Shan'iatu? Going by the Book of the Deceived, the intended to supplant the Judges, but either failed or are still in the middle of their attempt. But the Deathless are also their creations, so the Deathless serving the Judges is a little at odds with that - that was true in the first edition too, but if the Judges are playing a greater role, that's brought further to the foreground.
              So what do people think? Do the Shan'iatu still mean to replace the Judges, with the Deathless will ending up serving them instead - or did the make the attempt and it's definitively failed, so their intended servants now serve their intended victims - or will they have succeeded this time around - or do they have another plan? (One of my theories had always been that it was "Here, have these as your servants instead of us ").

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              • Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post

                Here's a question: if the Judge's are going to have a greater presence, if an insidious one, what does that mean for the Shan'iatu? Going by the Book of the Deceived, the intended to supplant the Judges, but either failed or are still in the middle of their attempt. But the Deathless are also their creations, so the Deathless serving the Judges is a little at odds with that - that was true in the first edition too, but if the Judges are playing a greater role, that's brought further to the foreground.
                So what do people think? Do the Shan'iatu still mean to replace the Judges, with the Deathless will ending up serving them instead - or did the make the attempt and it's definitively failed, so their intended servants now serve their intended victims - or will they have succeeded this time around - or do they have another plan? (One of my theories had always been that it was "Here, have these as your servants instead of us ").
                I think the best approach, at least for a corebook, is to leave the answer to this conundrum ambigious. (Though possibly put the question front and center rather than drawing it out.) The Answer probably won't have immediate consequences for your everyday descent, and there's a multitude of possible directions for "what's the deal with the Judges" to take. The whole Timeless quality adds another wrinkle. (If the Shan'iatu are going to have have usurped the Judges, would the Arisen have been always serving their will even when the original Judges were chronologically speaking, in charge.)

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                • Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
                  It's still a fancy way of saying "Your character can always just be amnesiac and deluded."
                  Given the original post by Florin, yes, that's exactly what we think he was advocating.

                  Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
                  Here's a question: if the Judge's are going to have a greater presence, if an insidious one, what does that mean for the Shan'iatu? Going by the Book of the Deceived, the intended to supplant the Judges, but either failed or are still in the middle of their attempt. But the Deathless are also their creations, so the Deathless serving the Judges is a little at odds with that - that was true in the first edition too, but if the Judges are playing a greater role, that's brought further to the foreground.
                  So what do people think? Do the Shan'iatu still mean to replace the Judges, with the Deathless will ending up serving them instead - or did the make the attempt and it's definitively failed, so their intended servants now serve their intended victims - or will they have succeeded this time around - or do they have another plan? (One of my theories had always been that it was "Here, have these as your servants instead of us ").
                  It was never entirely clear whether the original Judges of Life were the same as the Judges in the core book, or whether the latter were created as part of some cosmic exchange/perversion of the natural order by the Shan'iatu, or if the Shan'iatu became the Judges in the corebook (and whether those are the same as the Judges of Life), or whether the ritual failed entirely and the Arisen are bound to the original Judges as a form of permanent penance for enabling the Shan'iatu to even attempt such blasphemy, or... you get the idea. It's a very fuzzy grey area. We might get some clearer answers in second edition.

                  I always assumed the Judges of Life and the core book Judges were the same, which is where that slight dissonance creeps in, so it'll be interesting to see how second edition answers it.

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                  • Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
                    It's still a fancy way of saying "Your character can always just be amnesiac and deluded."
                    Sure, if you really want to toss everything I said out the window and replace it with something stupidly reductive.

                    I mean, yeah, there's a case for that, but the people who might find that attractive for avoiding the Nameless Empire and the rest of that bag are also not going to be satisfied by that response, so it's very definitely not my point.

                    My point is that a big part of the game is making the decision, as an Arisen, about whether or not the way the Nameless Empire was is truly the way of things and that adhering to it's central position of the nature of existence is the best course of action OR that the societies that have emerged since then have revealed fuller truths that are more harmonious with the nature of things and rebelling against the old judgments against flawed humanity, AND that the ability to be a full participant in those societies for a time is important for establishing the contrast of those choices, thereby rendering desires to be [X] mummies more meaningful then simply changing out the Nameless Empire with [X].

                    Also, Curse is not a game about how it's odd that we've started applying a slang term for Egyptian corpses to every preserved body. See "my positions are well known."


                    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                    Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.
                    Currently Working On: The Noble and the Sovereign, Blog

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                    • Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                      Also, Curse is not a game about how it's odd that we've started applying a slang term for Egyptian corpses to every preserved body.
                      It's not odd that we used a term referring to preserved corpses to refer to other preserved corpses.

                      See "my positions are well known."
                      And yet out of the two of us, I'm the one who keeps trying to turn the conversation back to Irem.

                      Originally posted by schizoPOP View Post
                      The Answer probably won't have immediate consequences for your everyday descent, and there's a multitude of possible directions for "what's the deal with the Judges" to take.
                      Fair.

                      The whole Timeless quality adds another wrinkle. (If the Shan'iatu are going to have have usurped the Judges, would the Arisen have been always serving their will even when the original Judges were chronologically speaking, in charge.)
                      It also opens the way for the Shan'iatu to be the Judges, even when their "lifespans" overlap.

                      Originally posted by Azahul View Post
                      I always assumed the Judges of Life and the core book Judges were the same, which is where that slight dissonance creeps in, so it'll be interesting to see how second edition answers it.
                      Me too - also, one of the developers said that the Shan'iatu and the Judges weren't the same, and both numbering 42 was a red herring - less of one when the Deceived book came out, though. It will be interesting to see whether the second edition holds to that.
                      Last edited by SunlessNick; 08-21-2018, 01:20 AM.

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                      • SunlessNick I think you should read Dreams of Avarice. It has some of the answers you seem to seek (like, who are the Judges, their connection to the Shan'itau and the finale fate of those who devised the Rite of Return)

                        EDIT- unless you read it, of course. I don't know, after reading DoA, it was very clear to me who the Judges are, and how fucked up are, well, everyone.
                        Last edited by LostLight; 08-21-2018, 04:36 PM.


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                        • Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                          EDIT- unless you read it, of course. I don't know, after reading DoA, it was very clear to me who the Judges are, and how fucked up are, well, everyone.
                          I have, and yeah me too. I just wonder sometimes if we're wrong, or if it will change.

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                          • Oh, what's that! First drafts says the MMN?

                            Its for reals people. And its coming!


                            Freelancer (He/His Pronouns): CofD - Dark Eras 2, Kith and Kin, Mummy 2e; Scion - Mysteries of the World

                            CofD booklists: Beast I Changeling | Demon | Deviant (TBA) | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire | Werewolf (WIP)

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                            • Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
                              Oh, what's that! First drafts says the MMN?

                              Its for reals people. And its coming!
                              Damn, that was quicker that 'spected.


                              Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                              The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                              Male/neutral pronouns accepted, female pronouns enjoyed.
                              Currently Working On: The Noble and the Sovereign, Blog

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                              • Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                                Damn, that was quicker that 'spected.
                                Yeah, I thought it was still months away. I was pleasantly surprised when I was proven wrong.


                                Freelancer (He/His Pronouns): CofD - Dark Eras 2, Kith and Kin, Mummy 2e; Scion - Mysteries of the World

                                CofD booklists: Beast I Changeling | Demon | Deviant (TBA) | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire | Werewolf (WIP)

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