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  • reseru
    replied
    The problem is that there are no "broader mummy archetypes." While several cultures have traditions of preserving their dead, mummies as a horror monster trope are solely associated with Egypt. Vampires, mages, and Prometheans can draw from global culture in ways that mummies can't because they exist in other cultures the way that "risen dead defending ancient tombs" don't.

    For that matter, it's not as if Auspices or Tribes in Werewolf are lined up to cultural archetypes. It's not just Mummy.

    Including "non-Iremite" mummies (whatever the fuck that even means, admittedly) in a Night Horrors book is my way of suggesting a compromise, and expanding the setting.. I certainly don't want them as player options (nor would I like seeing Shuankhsen as player options).

    Promethean isn't about transhumanism and it's not about playing alchemists. Beast isn't about playing Heroes. Yeesh.

    I could sit in on Changeling threads all day about how I hate its themes of trauma and abuse, and how contrived I think it is that there are so many people kidnapped by Gentry that there's secret societies of escapees, but I instead I bite the bullet, accept Changeling the Dreaming as more in my taste, and let other games be what they are.

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  • Azahul
    replied
    Originally posted by schizoPOP View Post
    There are few reasons I'd rather modify Mummy (which is definitely going happen on some level, see every 2nd ed game thusfar), than create Lich: The Liching.

    1. Its notable inconsistent with the approaches to most of the other gamelines. Mage has the pentacle front and center but its not about Atlantis and one can easily build a character without it. See also: covenants, courts, tribes. All of them have a particular culture that is dominant, but not all-consuming.
    "It's not how the others do it" isn't necessarily a bad thing. Mummy does a lot of things the other games don't, for that matter. They're all selling points.

    Originally posted by schizoPOP View Post
    2. Allocation of resources: Anything that's effectively a spinoff is simply going to get less attention and end up a notably less cohesive and robust game. Even it gets to be a full gameline, it'd mean any Lich book is effort not going towards mummy and vice-versa.
    White Wolf is committed to bringing out new games on, what, a yearly basis now? Production schedules exist to allow resources to be shared. At some point in a book's development cycle, the writers aren't doing anything and can move to new projects.

    Originally posted by schizoPOP View Post
    3. Elegant Game Design: I think mummy has plenty of strong and meaningful themes and concepts that are perfectly capable of being evocative without having to rely on the Iremite Paradigm. However, having two separate "Ancient Undead Sorcerer-Priest with Multi-Faceted Soul and a Connection to Judgemental Otherworldy Beings" exist simultaneously is pretty ugly design. And since a lot of the Iremite Paradigm is based on IC beliefs and perceptions, its easier to slot it into a greater "This is how Mummies Be" than vice versa. (and even in 1st edition a lot of the "True History" of Irem is IC supposition that fails to take into account important things if you look at the Chronicles of Darkness as a whole. Possible mechanical discrepancies aside, expanding what means to be Mummy doesn't require changing the text of Dreams of Avarice in the slightest.)
    They don't have to rely on the Iremite paradigm, in a strictly meta sense. But there's no reason that any other Mummy has use the same themes and concepts that Iremite mummies do. In fact, I would argue the opposite. Every culture that has made mummies in actual history has done so for different reasons and through different methods. Incan mummies, usually the most widely mentioned alternative when this topic comes up, were mummified through exposure to the elements rather than a ritual process and were the result of sacrifices, not burial traditions. The only reason we even use the word "Mummy" to refer to both these very different cultural artefacts is because, well, English can be lazy. They're only equivalent in the most vaguely superficial terms. So why would the supernatural equivalent be the same beyond the vaguely superficial? Why would non-Iremite mummies use the Egyptian conception of the multi-faced soul, or follow the idea of being servants of the Judges?

    Frankly, I don't think we'd even be having this discussion if English simply had different terms to reflect between the different variants of preserved body. Arguably, if you want to make all Mummies have the same base mechanics, it makes as much sense to extrapolate that out to every burial custom, but I don't see too many people arguing that cremated ashes should also use Mummy mechanics.

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  • atamajakki
    replied
    Originally posted by schizoPOP View Post
    I'd rather have an professionally written and designed game that let's me tell the stories I want to tell with it, that doesn't prevent you from telling the stories you want to tell with it.
    Again; this game has set out to tell a specific story. It's not going to change that with a new edition, no more than any other game would, and both the writers and the bulk of the player base wouldn't want it to anyway. You can want what you want however much you like, but Mummy: the Curse is about the Nameless Empire, the servants of it, and just maybe their hope of escaping the cycle of servitude.

    Leave a comment:


  • schizoPOP
    replied
    I'd rather have an professionally written and designed game that let's me tell the stories I want to tell with it, that doesn't prevent you from telling the stories you want to tell with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • atamajakki
    replied
    Feel free to modify the game yourself. Just don't ask the text to understand the premise it has emphatically stated for years now.

    Leave a comment:


  • schizoPOP
    replied
    There are few reasons I'd rather modify Mummy (which is definitely going happen on some level, see every 2nd ed game thusfar), than create Lich: The Liching.

    1. Its notable inconsistent with the approaches to most of the other gamelines. Mage has the pentacle front and center but its not about Atlantis and one can easily build a character without it. See also: covenants, courts, tribes. All of them have a particular culture that is dominant, but not all-consuming.

    2. Allocation of resources: Anything that's effectively a spinoff is simply going to get less attention and end up a notably less cohesive and robust game. Even it gets to be a full gameline, it'd mean any Lich book is effort not going towards mummy and vice-versa.

    3. Elegant Game Design: I think mummy has plenty of strong and meaningful themes and concepts that are perfectly capable of being evocative without having to rely on the Iremite Paradigm. However, having two separate "Ancient Undead Sorcerer-Priest with Multi-Faceted Soul and a Connection to Judgemental Otherworldy Beings" exist simultaneously is pretty ugly design. And since a lot of the Iremite Paradigm is based on IC beliefs and perceptions, its easier to slot it into a greater "This is how Mummies Be" than vice versa. (and even in 1st edition a lot of the "True History" of Irem is IC supposition that fails to take into account important things if you look at the Chronicles of Darkness as a whole. Possible mechanical discrepancies aside, expanding what means to be Mummy doesn't require changing the text of Dreams of Avarice in the slightest.)

    Leave a comment:


  • atamajakki
    replied
    Originally posted by schizoPOP View Post
    So absolutely zero possibility for some sort happy medium?
    It's been years. Promethean is still a game about becoming a human, Demon is still a techgnostic game, and Mummy is still about Irem. There's plenty of room for non-Iremite undead elsewhere.

    Leave a comment:


  • Azahul
    replied
    Originally posted by schizoPOP View Post
    So absolutely zero possibility for some sort happy medium?
    I'm more than happy for non-Iremite Mummies to have their own, separate game? Maybe as something like Revenants?

    But Mummy: The Curse isn't the place for them. The first edition provided two real easy ways to make non-Iremite Mummies, either as byproducts of the Blasphemous Depiction or as ghosts with the Revenant/Intruder Numen. That always felt like a good level for me.

    Leave a comment:


  • schizoPOP
    replied
    So absolutely zero possibility for some sort happy medium?

    Leave a comment:


  • atamajakki
    replied
    Originally posted by schizoPOP View Post
    I would like a considerably tighter ruleset, and drawing focus back enough allow people people to build meaningful mummy characters from broader archetypes (akin to most other supernaturals), while still supporting the Iremite paradigm as major force in mummy culture.
    I would riot if this happened, as would most of the fanbase. Mummy is the story of Irem's heirs, and everyone should just accept that already.

    Leave a comment:


  • Azahul
    replied
    Originally posted by schizoPOP View Post
    I would like a considerably tighter ruleset, and drawing focus back enough allow people people to build meaningful mummy characters from broader archetypes (akin to most other supernaturals), while still supporting the Iremite paradigm as major force in mummy culture.
    Yeah, I'm the opposite there. Any kind of emphasis on player non-Iremite characters and I'm out

    Unease Sybaris, specifically, was pretty hard to implement (it really should have been a single status effect akin to Terror Sybaris, not this scaling thing which was hard to keep track of), but what are the other issues with the rules that people took exception to? Mummy surpasses every other game in the Chronicles of Darkness set that I've played in terms of solid mechanics and balance, beating Demon and Promethean handily.

    Leave a comment:


  • schizoPOP
    replied
    I would like a considerably tighter ruleset, and drawing focus back enough allow people people to build meaningful mummy characters from broader archetypes (akin to most other supernaturals), while still supporting the Iremite paradigm as major force in mummy culture.

    Leave a comment:


  • atamajakki
    replied
    Generally cleaner rules (please make Sybaris a chain of Conditions, I beg you), some supplemental stuff rolled into core, and a chapter about troupe play for the new core with a spicy Night Horrors book would be a dream come true.

    Leave a comment:


  • reseru
    replied
    Originally posted by Azahul View Post
    And of course, in terms of the game's world and story I wouldn't change a thing. If Mummy gets a reworking on the same scale as, say, Changeling, I'm going to be real worried.
    Yeah, to me it should be more like Promethean where it's essentially a systems update and not a setting overhaul like Werewolf. Here are some things I've thought about, though:
    • A "Storyteller's Wall" was really unnecessary. For a section claiming to reveal all the secrets we still had to wait for, arguably, two or three future supplements to actually have those secrets revealed. More practically, they hid the relics in this section, too, which is really confounding given that those are clearly character sheet choices.
    • We all know Integrity replaced Morality, but I still like the idea of mummies have dual traits that play into each other. Pretty much every game has its spin on traits and I think this is fine for Mummy, too.
    • A lot of people want all the extra stuff from supplements in the core, but I think a lot of those rules are extra and don't need to be in the baseline core. However, Promethean did a good job of consolidating its 1e material into the new core so I guess it can happen here well.
    I also think we need to see the Arisen as compelling characters. Shuankhsen are cool and the Deceived upstaged the rest, I think, so some re-focus would be nice. Book of Going Westward would do well to explore the Judges and their relationship with their servants.

    And obligatory plea for a Night Horrors with ghostly horrors, strange mummy-like monsters created in mimicry of the Rite of Return, mortal sorcerers, cultists, Witnesses, and demons conjured out of Duat. This setting is up there with Mage and Werewolf for weird shit lurking around everywhere but I feel like that really wasn't explored as much as it could have been.

    Leave a comment:


  • Azahul
    replied
    Originally posted by Cleverest of Things View Post
    I do hope they hring some of the utterances up a notch. The ''life'' focused ones (golden ankh, notably) can be somewhat underwhelming.
    Seeds of Life and Waters of Life and Death were the problem Utterances for me. Golden Ankh got a lot of use from the player who took it.

    Originally posted by Cleverest of Things View Post
    Bane mummies need love too, hehe.
    Hey, wait, I ran that game

    Leave a comment:

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