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What We Know So Far: Mummy the Curse 2nd Edition

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  • Originally posted by nothri View Post
    My objection is that KiEnGir was a Mesopotamian enemy of Irem in first edition and should remain so in second. It wouldn’t matter whether you said America is inside the borders of China or that “the America” was an elite unit of imperial soldiers serving the Chinese emperor. Both statements are silly and wrong if you know what “America” refers to.
    Canaan's at the bare minimum directly between Egypt and Mesopotamia, so I'm not sure where you get off escalating the comparison that far.


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    • It's possibly a minor flub in language that should be brought to their attention on the KS or maybe discord and could be changed in the final pdf.


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      • Originally posted by nothri View Post
        My objection is that KiEnGir was a Mesopotamian enemy of Irem in first edition and should remain so in second.

        From first edition's core, the first of two mentions of the Kir-En-Gir on p19.

        "It takes only a year to conquer the lands that will one day be called Libya and Nubia, but resistance is strong in Canaan. Tent-dwelling nomads scatter before Irem’s army, but warn those to whom they had long paid tribute. These Ki-En-Gir command the only professional soldiers the Iremites have seen besides themselves."

        They sure sound like they were a Canaanite enemy of Irem. Mesopotamia isn't even mentioned for 60 odd pages.

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        • Originally posted by nofather View Post


          From first edition's core, the first of two mentions of the Kir-En-Gir on p19.

          "It takes only a year to conquer the lands that will one day be called Libya and Nubia, but resistance is strong in Canaan. Tent-dwelling nomads scatter before Irem’s army, but warn those to whom they had long paid tribute. These Ki-En-Gir command the only professional soldiers the Iremites have seen besides themselves."

          They sure sound like they were a Canaanite enemy of Irem. Mesopotamia isn't even mentioned for 60 odd pages.
          Ki En Gir literally means Sumerian, is the problem.


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          • Like, I always assumed that the Ki En Gir were a local power which took over the region of Canaan, much like Irem ruled far beyond what is now called Egypt.

            From the quote, it feels very clear that the people of Canaan were under the protection/ rule. tribute to the Ki En Gir, which are Mesopotamian. I still haven't read the preview (I'll get the money for it tomorrow), but it makes sense that the Ki En Gir's reach extended to the ancient Levant.
            Last edited by LostLight; 11-06-2019, 06:28 PM.


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            • Originally posted by nofather View Post
              They sure sound like they were a Canaanite enemy of Irem. Mesopotamia isn't even mentioned for 60 odd pages.
              Sounds like the nomads in Canaan were tributaries of Ki-En-Gir who became the enemies of Irem. Knowing my history I'd naturally assume the Ki-En-Gir to be Sumer (since the name Sumer is derived from Ki-En-Gir), and that they sent their armies to Canaan to defend their tributaries and combat the Nameless Empire.

              The second mention that you omitted also states that Irem warred with Ki-En-Gir in the city of Ubar, a legendary city said to have been somewhere in the southern Arabia. If so, it's much more likely that Sumer had control of both Ubar and Canaan (through tributaries in the latter case) than Canaan being a nation with a stronghold on the other side of two deserts south-east of their own lands.
              (Fun fact, another name for Ubar is Irem. Make of that what you wish.)


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              • Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                Ki En Gir literally means Sumerian, is the problem.
                Nah it was more about some perceived change to a group mentioned twice across editions.

                The 'problem' was even brought up here during first edition.

                Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                The second mention that you omitted also states that Irem warred with Ki-En-Gir in the city of Ubar, a legendary city said to have been somewhere in the southern Arabia. If so, it's much more likely that Sumer had control of both Ubar and Canaan (through tributaries in the latter case) than Canaan being a nation with a stronghold on the other side of two deserts south-east of their own lands.
                This part is pretty much restated as is in the manuscript, with the fate of Ubar being the same. The Ki-En-Gir technically get mentioned again in one of the Deceived books but it's just an in-world recollection of 'they were different, we killed them.'
                Last edited by nofather; 11-06-2019, 06:39 PM.

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                • Originally posted by nofather View Post
                  Nah it was more about some perceived change to a group mentioned twice across editions.

                  The 'problem' was even brought up here during first edition.
                  The "perceived" change is due to the 1e book not being particularly precise with its wording. It's possible and even natural to interpret the text as Ki-En-Gir being Canaanites (thus the thread you linked), but if you know or look up what Ki-En-Gir means it's more natural for a different interpretation that doesn't actively clash with real history.
                  The 2e preview, however, works off of the first interpretation. Whether it's how they intentionally want it despite Ki-En-Gir being a name for Sumer, or it was never supposed to be read that way in the 1e core book and the writer erroneously followed the first interpretation, I don't know. Hopefully we'll get clarification on this during the KS.


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                  • Originally posted by nofather View Post



                    From first edition's core, the first of two mentions of the Kir-En-Gir on p19.

                    "It takes only a year to conquer the lands that will one day be called Libya and Nubia, but resistance is strong in Canaan. Tent-dwelling nomads scatter before Irem’s army, but warn those to whom they had long paid tribute. These Ki-En-Gir command the only professional soldiers the Iremites have seen besides themselves."

                    They sure sound like they were a Canaanite enemy of Irem. Mesopotamia isn't even mentioned for 60 odd pages.
                    Edit: after going through some of the other comments I realized my original response was just rehashing what others had already said. Instead I will just point out that Sothis Ascends at the bottom of page 23 blatantly aligns Mesopotamia with Ki En Gir directly. While I don’t have a page number I believe the Alexander the Great chapter of Dark Eras also refers to the “half demon” Ki En Gir as one example of a Mesopotamian empire (which was written, if memory serves, by the same person that wrote parts of the Fall of Iserion, the excellent mummy chapter in dark eras companion.
                    Last edited by nothri; 11-07-2019, 02:38 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                      Canaan's at the bare minimum directly between Egypt and Mesopotamia, so I'm not sure where you get off escalating the comparison that far.
                      As a curtesy I’ll try to keep the hyperbole to a minimum next time. But I’m not gonna make a habit of being overly concerned with your approval when I comment, Satchel. Otherwise I’d spend all day typing up the message.

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                      • Moving beyond that complaint which I do hope they change before the final draft I like what I’m seeing by and large. One thing that stands out was the deep description on several judges. I hope we can get a book (players guide?) that does the same for the remaining 36 cause that provided some much needed depth on how the creepy bastards operate.

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                        • Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                          Like, I always assumed that the Ki En Gir were a local power which took over the region of Canaan, much like Irem ruled far beyond what is now called Egypt.

                          From the quote, it feels very clear that the people of Canaan were under the protection/ rule. tribute to the Ki En Gir, which are Mesopotamian. I still haven't read the preview (I'll get the money for it tomorrow), but it makes sense that the Ki En Gir's reach extended to the ancient Levant.

                          This. Haven't read second edition, but our intent was that Ki En Gir was in the fertile crescent, and Irem and they had proxy wars - much as Egypt and Mesopotamia did in real life. Maybe a second ed writer misunderstood the bit about the Canaanites paying tribute to Ki En Gir.


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                          • After reading the preview, it seems that the writer does stress a lot that the Ki En Gir were the "legions of Canaan". It could be easily reconciled with the fact that the history section shows only the side of the Arisen of history- and as they stopped their conquest at Canaan and Ubar, they may not have actually known how far did the Ki-En-Gir extended beyond the region, as well as by considering the Ki-En-Gir reference as their presence presence in the region of the Levant (that is, that Canaan maintained military presence from Mesopotamia and the Ki-En-Gir), and that after losing Ubar the nation, as whole, came to the conclusion that it is better to negotiate with Irem than allowing it to further spread into its borders, wrecking havoc and ruining everything.

                            So yeah, it is not that 2e's description outright invalidate the original intent, but I still feel that the writer may have had the wrong interpretation of the text *shrugs*


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                            • Originally posted by Dave Brookshaw View Post
                              This. Haven't read second edition, but our intent was that Ki En Gir was in the fertile crescent, and Irem and they had proxy wars - much as Egypt and Mesopotamia did in real life. Maybe a second ed writer misunderstood the bit about the Canaanites paying tribute to Ki En Gir.
                              I think so too. It would be more than a little weird having a fictional Ki-En-Gir placed substantially to the west of the real, historical Ki-En-Gir (more known as Sumer, derived from the Akkadian reading of Ki-En-Gir written in Cuneiform).


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