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  • Yeah I am a little surprised at the reactions to that section. I took it as a combination of partially what loyalists want people to think of Apotheosis and partially the intimation that like 1e, Apotheosis is about freedom(well except the Deceived heh) not power.


    “As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” noun: empathy the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

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    • LordHeru Of all the typos in all the timelines, Hekufax is by far and away the most appropriate! I am very glad you enjoy it! I was super pleased when I realized I could draw some of my favourite 1e aspects into the setting. The Su-Menent are the Necromancers in Mummy.


      Freelancer (He/His Pronouns): CofD - Dark Eras 2, Kith and Kin, Mummy 2e, Oak Ash and Thorn, Contagion RMCs; Scion - Mysteries of the World

      CofD booklists: Beast I Changeling | Demon | Deviant (TBA) | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire | Werewolf (WIP)

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      • Originally posted by nothri View Post
        Personally, I'm bored by the fact that an eldritch abomination that bleeds scorpions and shatters the mind of mortals has been downgraded to an occult pokemon
        "Eldritch pokemon that will inevitably break free and cause chaos" is pretty much how I'd describe either version, only in this one, the Judges aren't going to pearl clutch over their use. These guys also seem a lot stronger. ymmv

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        • Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
          LordHeru Of all the typos in all the timelines, Hekufax is by far and away the most appropriate! I am very glad you enjoy it! I was super pleased when I realized I could draw some of my favourite 1e aspects into the setting. The Su-Menent are the Necromancers in Mummy.
          Yeah I giggled at Hekufax, it was pretty fun.

          And also yeah, the two chapters were brilliant. At the lowest there were some "no, but" with the 'but' being me thinking of side ways to use it but that was very much overshadowed by "yes" and "yes, and" so that was cool. I had fun going over it. The two chapters are brilliant. There are so many interesting plot elements and story seeds (I love story seeds, so the bulleted story seeds in both chapters were brilliant to me) that I could see half a dozen chronicles. I will also add that the non-linear nature of things was totally satysfying, so that was great to see.

          Ooooh, of course Necromancer represents the guild, duh. lol. I should have realized that but for some reason my mind went to "what template are they" lol.

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          • Sooo as a random idea for the immortals (especially the Reborn but the others as well) I was thinking of using the Eidetic Memory, Advanced Merit from Beast. This idea then led me to wondering if there are other merits, both template based and supernatural, that might fit for the immortals. Which is why I am posting this, to see if anyone else has any thoughts on this.

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            • Which is, in fact, what 1E Apotheosis explicitly was; Dreams of Avarice made it explicit that you can chose the Judges' power or you can chose eternal humanity, not both.
              Well… kind of. In 1e, an Arisen who achieves Apotheosis has maxed out all of his Pillars, has a high Memory, and has replaced his Sekhem with his Memory for most purposes (the most significant exception being access to the bulk of one's Utterances) and with Willpower and the aforementioned maxed-out Pillars for self-healing purposes (both being resources that are much easier to recover than Sekhem is). On top of that, he's invisible to the supernatural world (having reclaimed his True Name) and can move Sekhem into things, letting him make relics. The only power you actually sacrifice with Apotheosis is the higher levels of your Utterances and Relics.

              That's still really powerful.

              But yeah; thematically, the intent is that power and freedom are mutually exclusive. I read the passages in the manuscript about Apotheosis along the lines of “we don't really need to worry about mummies selling Apotheosis, because it's against their nature to give up power.”


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              • Okay. I want to make sure I get something.

                At character creation an Arisen has Memory 3. The first scene its 0 but then afterward it goes to 3. This means they have a basic identity and a rough memory of one previous descent. This all makes sense to me.

                But here is where my question lies. So then the descent ends, that is they die. Another descent occurs. Do they start the next with Memory 3, or do they begin with Memory 2. With the reduction being explained as them drinking from the cup in Duat. Does it matter if a death cycle or trip to Duat occurs?

                I also can't help but notice that unlike the sanctity of experience there doesn't seem to be any sanctity of remembrance experience. This is telling because memory can be eaten by judges and gods and lost because of other reasons.

                Additionally how easy should it be to get remembrance experience? Should enough beats be gained to equal at least one point each descent?

                I ask for others thoughts on this as I personally dislike the whole memory issue and would much prefer characters with Memory 10 and the eidetic memory merits so yeah.

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                • Originally posted by LordHeru View Post
                  Okay. I want to make sure I get something.

                  At character creation an Arisen has Memory 3. The first scene its 0 but then afterward it goes to 3. This means they have a basic identity and a rough memory of one previous descent. This all makes sense to me.

                  But here is where my question lies. So then the descent ends, that is they die. Another descent occurs. Do they start the next with Memory 3, or do they begin with Memory 2. With the reduction being explained as them drinking from the cup in Duat. Does it matter if a death cycle or trip to Duat occurs?

                  I also can't help but notice that unlike the sanctity of experience there doesn't seem to be any sanctity of remembrance experience. This is telling because memory can be eaten by judges and gods and lost because of other reasons.

                  Additionally how easy should it be to get remembrance experience? Should enough beats be gained to equal at least one point each descent?

                  I ask for others thoughts on this as I personally dislike the whole memory issue and would much prefer characters with Memory 10 and the eidetic memory merits so yeah.
                  Reminisce Experiences are not protected. Doing so would render threats to Memory meaningless. If you don’t like Arisen Memory issues, you can freely ignore them for your games, but doing so does alter the Arisen experience considerably. I believe you were saying that you were going to be tweaking things for your games anyway, though, so it probably wouldn’t be an issue for your table.


                  Jason Ross Inczauskis, Freelance Writer
                  Projects: Dark Eras 2, Mummy: The Curse 2e, Book of Lasting Death, Pirates of Pugmire, They Came From Beyond the Grave!, TC Aeon: Mission Statements, TC In Media Res, DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action, C20 Anthology of Dreams
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                  • Originally posted by White Oak Dragon View Post

                    Reminisce Experiences are not protected. Doing so would render threats to Memory meaningless. If you don’t like Arisen Memory issues, you can freely ignore them for your games, but doing so does alter the Arisen experience considerably. I believe you were saying that you were going to be tweaking things for your games anyway, though, so it probably wouldn’t be an issue for your table.
                    Gotcha on the not protected thing. And yeah that makes sense. That said, was my general set up accurate as far as official ruling goes? I like to make sure I get the way things are before I start making changes.

                    Basically does Memory loose a point every Descent or would it stay around 3 if the whole Duat trials aren't played through.

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                    • I wouldn't say that removing the Memory issues is “tweaking”; more like “radically overhauling”. It would be like playing Vampire without Humanity issues.

                      But if it works for you, great!


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                      • Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                        I wouldn't say that removing the Memory issues is “tweaking”; more like “radically overhauling”. It would be like playing Vampire without Humanity issues.

                        But if it works for you, great!
                        Its funny that you would say that, as humanity issues was never something I cared about either. (Espeically in the previous edition, I disliked humanity as morality and such.) (That said I also have to admit to not focusing deeply on the nuances of 2e vampires as there were some changes that I didn't like right off the bat. But honestly that is neither here nor there, hehe)

                        But anyway, I honestly like fully figuring out rules before making changes. Which is why I wanted to get a full on sense of how 2e handled memory before I go and change things.

                        I do have to admit, as a note, that memory is one of those reasons I sort of latched onto the Reborn as a template group.

                        But I also have to make it clear, and I think my recent posts prove this, that there is much, very much, in 2e mummy that I like.

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                        • Originally posted by LordHeru View Post
                          I ask for others thoughts on this as I personally dislike the whole memory issue and would much prefer characters with Memory 10 and the eidetic memory merits so yeah.
                          I think it explicitly states you can explicitly avoid drinking Anpu's Bottled Lethe Juice. PCs, I would typically expect to avoid it, but it gives justification why NPCs don't have as good of an idea of what's going on and works as an idea of why the PC might not know what's going on (besides nonlinear time).

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                          • So, a sum up of the first read of the last preview (I may have missed some things, due to me being extremely tired right now)-

                            I do really enjoy Peru and Denmark as Mummy settings. Johannesburg is also a good one. Still kinda disappointed that Cairo or Jerusalem are not in the list, but nevermind that. Antarctica is creepy- I like it being represented as an ever hungry realm, filled with rage and desire for vengeance. In a way, it makes me think about it less as Irem and more as Duat on the face of Earth. While I have no complains about the setting, I'm kinda conflicted by the fact that for a continent with practically no one in it it has already showed up three times as an example setting. Sure, each time was a very evocative and interesting presentation, but when it first showed up in Promethean I've thought for myself "wow!". When it showed up in the third time I've thought to myself "again?". I kinda hope that unless we will get an "Antarctic Adventures" supplement, that it won't be used again as an example setting, but that the wordcount would be devoted to a place yet to be explored in CofD.

                            The presentation of Duat was really cool, IMO. I'm still confused why things like Shades and Fiends don't show up in the antagonists section, but in the Storytelling chapter. I'm a bit disappointed that unless I missed it (and again, I'm tired, so don't send the Judges after me if I'm wrong), I don't think I've seen any mention for the Shan'iatu being confined to feast upon vinegar and ash, nor any mention of the Heretic in relation for Apotheosis. Just things I've thought could have been cool. In general I must admit that 2e feels a bit less "mythic" than 1e, as the multitude of divinities outside the Judges takes a much lesser place in the setting. Some people may prefer it this way, but I must say I miss it.

                            I'm not sure how I feel about the "Ocean of Time". It is an evocative image, sure, but it feels a bit foreign to me. My brain for some reason keeps equating "Sea = Ammut" (probably something from Dreams of Avarice), and it just makes me feel weird. When I think about non-linear time, my mind turns more towards sands and winds, less towards seas and currents. Blame my syntheses for this :P

                            Anyway, on a more relevant note, I can;t say that non-linear time ever made me feel too excited: I'm ok with it, but that's more or less it. I assume that for me it makes the game feel less... ancient, I think? Like, I'm not sure I feel the weight of ages as much as I felt in 1e. The fact that time becomes meaningless turns it, IMO, that the weight of millennia feels less heavy, if non existent. Again, personal flavor thing. The example scenarios were nice, however, even if some of them are not my cup of tea. Again, nothing bad, just preference.

                            As for the methods for "escape" presented in the section- like many others, of course I would have preferred to see more about Apotheosis. The concept of becoming a servant of Anpu is intriguing, but needs further development. The Neru are also a cool concept, and I really like the idea of the Judges offering their mummies even extra power in guise of tightening the chains even harder. The concept of usurping the Judges doesn't really captures my attention, on the other hand. It feels that the only thing coming out of it will be that the usurper would become the same tyrant.

                            I did enjoyed the crossover mentions- not sure how I feel about the Judges forcing Paradox upon mages, especially as it is said "as if they were Annunaki". The Annunaki, after all, aren't aware enough to knowingly force Paradox- it is the Abyss, which isn't exactly the same thing. Just something that stings my eye a bit. The Judges forcing Paradoxes feels a bit too much about one gameline sticking its fingers in another, and while I'm far from being against crossovers, the fact that the Judge personally mess with your magic is a bit weird. On the other hand, the Judges do personally hate you, so it makes sense.

                            So all in all, a nice conclusion for Mummy. I would still want to understand what could actually threaten a mummy outside of failing their Judge so much that they let Shezmu to crush them into wine and feed the Devourer. Also, if I understand correctly, killing a mummy in a way that would not allow them to progress through the timeline would cause the mummy to practically "swim' to another "current" and reborn in a timeline where they could continue their existence regularly? I understand that the Arisen ignore the regular paradoxes of time, but I assume they do so by forcing a path of their own through the sea of time, jumping between timelines in a way that for someone from the same timeline would believe to be non linear, but that there is a trajectory when looking in the whole multiverse. I still don't really get how existing in whole times in the same time is related to non linear time- that concept is actually very well grounded in linear timeline, where an object could exist in all places and all times simultaneously, and that our own sense of time is an illusion of self. It is, in fact, a very deterministic concept- everything was decided, the trajectory is already formed, it is only your mind which can't grasp it. If your mind could exist simultaneously across all the points in time and space, it would have known both its beginning and end. Unless by saying "existing simultaneously in all times" refers to existing simultaneously in all timelines, which is different and makes sense in the context of mummies as "islands of stability" in the endless sea of timelines. A convergent point towards all different possibilities flow. Was it the intention?

                            Anyway, Bunyip, you mentioned to help me to understand what is the meaning of temporal death versus permanent death to mummies, and what could exactly completely destroy one for all eternity (unless the only way is "failing so much that even your Judge will just throw you to Ammut's maw"), and I redeem that offer. Did I got it more or less right, or is there something that I have missed?


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                            • Originally posted by LordHeru View Post

                              Gotcha on the not protected thing. And yeah that makes sense. That said, was my general set up accurate as far as official ruling goes? I like to make sure I get the way things are before I start making changes.

                              Basically does Memory loose a point every Descent or would it stay around 3 if the whole Duat trials aren't played through.
                              We probably need to give Memory effects between Descents another pass to make sure everything is clear. That said, since gaining a dot of Memory is a potential benefit from the Trials of Duat, it can be boosted up by one to compensate for a lost dot from Anpu’s cup. You could even justify that benefit as Anpu giving them a drink that didn’t strip their memories, for whatever enigmatic reason he might have.


                              Jason Ross Inczauskis, Freelance Writer
                              Projects: Dark Eras 2, Mummy: The Curse 2e, Book of Lasting Death, Pirates of Pugmire, They Came From Beyond the Grave!, TC Aeon: Mission Statements, TC In Media Res, DtD Night Horrors: Enemy Action, C20 Anthology of Dreams
                              Masculine pronouns preferred.

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                              • Originally posted by White Oak Dragon View Post
                                Reminisce Experiences are not protected. Doing so would render threats to Memory meaningless. If you don’t like Arisen Memory issues, you can freely ignore them for your games, but doing so does alter the Arisen experience considerably. I believe you were saying that you were going to be tweaking things for your games anyway, though, so it probably wouldn’t be an issue for your table.
                                Would it hurt having Reminisce Experiences just be refunded as regular Experiences? It really fucking sucks when you've spent time amassing enough XP to advance your character only for it to go up in smoke. I know that losing a dot doesn't negate the playing experience you had while collecting the Beats, but it can still make you feel like you've lost progress. Especially in a game like Mummy where you're actively encouraged to increase your Memory instead of Vampire or CofD where you're more focused on not losing Humanity/Integrity.

                                My group has long house ruled that you regain all XP for any traits you lose, not just Merits, which made losing those traits actually fun instead of something that's outright undesirable both in- and out-of-game. It doesn't affect me since we've already house ruled the game that way (and I still don't know if I'll get to even play Mummy), but I'm seriously recommending doing something similar as a standard rule. I think Mummy is the best game for it, too, due to how much of a setback Memory loss is and that using different XP currencies makes it so you can refund the XP without some players immediately putting it right back into Memory again.


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