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Potentiality for Other Minor Guilds

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  • Potentiality for Other Minor Guilds

    So I personally really like the concept of the new Minor Guilds, and for a number of reasons. First, they answer some of the questions which bugged me since forever (like, where are Irem's soldiers). Second, they scratch that itch I had for more exotic forms of mummies. And third, and most importantly, they actually make me feel Irem as a culture, bringing it into life. Instead of some monolithic empire of evil swallowed by the sands ages ago, we now see it was a far more complex society. Its soldiers fought, died and continued fighting, Its doctors protested against the Rite and paid the price. Its charlatans and street magician and prophets managed to cheat their way into the Rite. The Iremite society starts to come into life, a land of slavers and slaves, alchemists and architects, physicians and undertakers, scribes and artists, oracles and soldiers.

    But what about everyone else?

    I mean, one of the things that the Rite did was making Irem into an eternal fact. Its culture became Timeless and Faceless, left to be carried through eternity across the ages. Fate would take care of it. But while those ten groups of immortals cover much of the Irem's society, there may be other professions which are not really represented right now, and which may serve as a basis for making other Minor Guilds. Some of those professions, of course, could be folded into a single Guild, as the canon Guilds already do- dancers, singers, musicians, poets, philosophers, painters and even body artists are all folded together under the Akhem Urtu. The Wadjet Itja are oracles, but also gamblers, thieves and hedge magicians. The ever hungry Shuankhsen are slaves, but slaves do all kinds of dirty works- from building monuments to farming (assuming that in Irem, farmers were actually slaves, which is a safe bet considering their general culture). Yet, there are still other social castes which are yet to be explored, IMO.

    Merchants and traders, for example. Those people who travel across the Nameless Empire and perhaps even cross its borders to trade with its neighbors, such as the strange lands of the Ki En Gir. As merchants govern themselves mostly with wealth and less in creation, it makes sense for me that of they were to have a governing organization in the time of Irem, it won't enjoy an high status such a the other Guilds due to the fact they don't actually create or refine Sekhem, even though they are invaluable in spreading it across the world, not to mention gathering the necessary ingredients for the creation of all kinds of relics. Personally, a minor Guild of traders sounds like a really good idea, with a lot of potential.

    On the other hand, one group of crafters which does not feel represented, IMO, would be weavers of clothes. As weaving is somewhat related to the creation of beauty (clothes and aesthetics, after all), we may also fold perfumers, cosmetics and similar professions into the list (even though making perfumes may be somewhat the Alchemist's territory, but I always got the impression they dealt more with "inorganic alchemy", such as metals and such). We may even try and fold prostitution into that group, which would help to separate them from the Keeper's territory of body art. While according to the internet there isn't a lot of information about prostitution in Ancient Egypt, Irem did reached out to Canaan, were sacred prostitution was a thing. It may very well be that the weavers and perfumers were originally a very small organization in Irem, but after the Pact of Ubar some of Canaan's practices has started to influence Irem's culture, such as using sacred prostitutes as a way to commune with the gods without breaking the taboo against prayer, which found its place in that Guild of cosmetics.

    Finally, one more profession which I feel to be missing is, well, the king. While the Sahn'iatu were the true rulers of Irem, they needed to have a king as a symbol, just like Azar was the King of Duat yet the true power was in the hands of the Judges. The noble line was yearly sacrificed, IIRC, to represent Azar's death and ascension. Having mummies based around the nobility of Irem could be interesting- officially the top of society, yet without any true power, being meant to serve only as a sacrifice and symbol. Yet, the noble line is also important as it represents continuity- having an unbroken dynasty of kings is a symbol for the eternal culture of the country, and making their culture eternal was the whole point of the Rite. As such, it makes sense that the Shan'iatu would try and find a way to preserve the nobility of Irem, as an undying proof for its existence. More like a relic, than actual servants and slaves for the Judges.

    Well, that's what I have in mind. What do you think?


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    "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

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  • #2
    I'm happy to see I wasn't the only one think this ! In 1E, I had toyed with the idea of creating the Metjen-Sekti ("Way-Weavers") as a subsidiary Deceived Guild formed by Aset centered around textiles. Other Names I came up with were Senu-Jedet ("Kisses of Burning Incense", but also homophonous to Senu-Jadet, "The Kisses of Affliction/Pestilence), without deciding if it would be a name for hierodules or cosmetic/perfumers creators.

    When it comes to a Lifeless/semi-Deathless Guild, I'd like to create one clearly aligned with the Devourer and the Shuankshen - but refined, close to the Arisen's mindset in their own way, and thus more dangerous.

    Their art would be cooking.

    The art of reducing things imbued with Sekhem to mere atomic sustenance - but also to conjoin their flavors to make them something wonderful, but only agreeable to the one that consumes and digests them. The art of the Devourer, that corrodes and seasons other Vestiges and Relics, salting them with your Cultists' tears before adding a pound of your flesh to the pot. An art of immemorial lineage, but producing only transient results. An art that is performed by the downtrodden and served to the mighty of this world, but that opens the opportunity for the low to poison the high.

    As for a name... Nehedjut (The Teeth/Fangs/Tusks), perhaps?
    Last edited by Adrasalieth; 12-18-2019, 08:30 PM.

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    • #3
      I really like the names you suggested for the weavers and perfumers, Adrasalieth! I currently having conflicted thoughts about whether the two groups should be folded into a single minor Guild, or that they should remain separated. The Meten Sekti have a very well defined vessel group in the form of clothes and fabrics, while the Senu Jedet are much less (they could have "scents" as their vessel group, which is a bit ethereal compared to the other vessels, but it could work. On the other hand, they could be a "fake guild", like the Wedjet Itja, who lack a relic of their own. Could work, if we were to take the angle of them being "foreign practice from Canaan". I have some thoughts about them having a role in the Slaves Revolt, but we'll see how it goes).

      I too have considered cooks as some sort of a minor Guild, but I am not sure if in the Iremite culture they would be a separate class than slaves, hence why I suggested Iremite farmers being also members of the slave caste. While the concept of refining Sekhem through food makes sense, I wonder if the Shan'iatu would take the practice seriously enough- but it is a possibility. It also makes me think about the story of Joseph and the Pharaoh, where he was in jail with the chief baker and chief cup bearer (which the original Hebrew version calls "the Minister/Lord of Bakers" and "Minister/Lord of Wine Makers"). Also makes me wonder that even if farmers and cooks were slaves in Irem, winemakers sound like something a Guild could be made for... Heck, considering the organic chemistry focus of both winemakers and perfumers, the concept of scent and the connection that both groups could have towards hierodules, it makes sense to combine the two classes together, and leaving the weavers as their own group.

      As for the trader Guild, I kinda think they probably won't have relics of their own- instead, they have some ability with "trading" vessels, either moving the Sekhem from one form of vessel to the other (for a certain price, of course), or perhaps the ability to track down and evaluate the "worth" of relics. Just random thoughts about the subject, of course.

      The noble Guild, on the other hand, would have a very clear relic- themselves. I imagine them being focused around their living bloodlines, having the ability to track those who carry the lineage of Irem's Pharaoh, and using them in a similar way that the Arisen use relics- such as making them into a living Lifeweb, or sacrificing them to Duat. Perhaps the Pharaoh/ noble family reincarnate themselves through the bloodline, and are to the Reborn what the warrior guild are to the Eternals, or the oracles to the Harvesters. Perhaps, in that case, the trader Guild would be an "enhanced" form of Body Thieves.


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      • #4
        The noble Guild, on the other hand, would have a very clear relic- themselves. I imagine them being focused around their living bloodlines, having the ability to track those who carry the lineage of Irem's Pharaoh, and using them in a similar way that the Arisen use relics- such as making them into a living Lifeweb, or sacrificing them to Duat. Perhaps the Pharaoh/ noble family reincarnate themselves through the bloodline, and are to the Reborn what the warrior guild are to the Eternals, or the oracles to the Harvesters. Perhaps, in that case, the trader Guild would be an "enhanced" form of Body Thieves.
        The name for them is the easiest: "Nesut-Bity". That was the title that every Pharaoh bore, meaning "The One of the Sedge and the Bee" (i.e. the King over both Upper and Lower Egypt). This mention of the Bee, especially, makes me think of them as a hive, not in mind, but in purpose. Each of the Noble is Pharaoh reborn. Each of them is legitimate, each the center around which the Whorl of Fate spins. A line of sedges, standing on both banks of the river of Time, whispering as one in the wind.

        Initially, I thought that their Relics could be the remains of their Kingdom: i.e. the infrastructures and anthropologic remains of Irem. An old bazaar that used to sell slaves to the Shani'atu, a school whose harsh methods have been handed down since the first House of Life, etc. We could even vye for supernatural crossovers: would a Kindred Elysium whose Crone Elder remembers the old rites a bit too well count? What about the Old Laws of an enduring Underworld Dominion?

        On the other hand, your idea that they themselves are Relics is also thrilling. I like to think that they could be a mutable Relic, shifting in purpose depending on what their life - and the Mummies acting as the power behind their thrones - turns out to be.

        Of course, that's only if you keep them hidden Kings and Queens: princes of thieves, scheming plotters and other unsung heroes. For if you allow them too much glory, too much true fame, their names could very well turn to Names, and those Names into powerful Sebayt... and Azar knows that the Akhem-Urtu are ready to do enough to resume their old place, at the right of Pharao's throne.

        Last edited by Adrasalieth; 11-20-2019, 07:00 AM. Reason: Typos

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        • #5
          I do like the Nesut Bity as the "Pharaoh Hive", immortal symbols of Irem's royalty. I don't really think that Kingdom would work as their relic, considering that the infrastructures and traditions of Irem are, well, the Guilds themselves, so having a minor Guild dedicated for preserving the Guilds is kinda weird. Besides, the fact that they could sacrifice other members of the noble line to Duat gives a very deep feeling of "blood magic" and goes with the cycle of sacrificed kings. Like Melisandre's fascination with royal blood in Song of Ice & Fire/ Game of Thrones. If we want to go darker, we may even suggest that every mummy is able to sacrifice the Nobles as relics to Duat.

          So I think that for a basic pitch, the Nobles are more or less complete. We have a name for them (Nesut Bity), relics (the noble bloodline), form of immortality (some form of Reborn) and how they became immortal (by the Shan'iatu, in order to preserve the kings of Irem). Let's look at the other ones.

          The more that I think about it, the Senu Jadet shouldn't have relics, like the Wadjet Itja. Relics are meant to last, after all, and their craft is based around temporary objects- perfumes, intoxicants and cosmetics. Those are things which are meant to be used and consumed in order to produce bliss, not kept in a closed tomb for all eternity. That fleeting nature of the Guild's craft immediately puts them in odds with the rest of the Guilds, which is cool. I think about connecting them to an earlier work of mine, a conspiracy called the Temple of Silence. My idea is that they originally were a subdivision of the Mesen Nebu which specialized in "organic alchemy", until the conquest of Canaan and the Pact of Ubar. With it, Canaanite slaves and ideas has found their way into Irem, and hierodules became more and more common, as a way to bypass the taboo against prayer. Due to their fascination with aesthetics, the perfumers has started to detach themselves from their parent Guild, eventually forming the Senu Jadet as they focused themselves around preparing hierodules for their ceremonies. Unlike other Guilds, the Senu Jadet had more foreigners than Iremites, until eventually their guildmaster- a powerful Sekhem sorceress of Canaan and self claimed prophet- started to warn against the coming Rite. That was the catalyst for the Slaves Rebellion, which ended with the Guild being dismantled and butchered alongside the slaves, all meant to be sacrificed to Ammut. However, somehow, the guildmaster has managed to resist the pull of Duat, and carried with her the souls of her Guild outside of the flow of Nebtet in exchange for a sacrifice of their Name and Shadow. As such, we have their name (Senu Jadet) and relics (none), as well as how they became immortals (a strange sorcery which managed to bypass the Rite of Return, similar to the trick of the Wadjet Itja). Their form of immortality, however, is still unclear.

          As for the Weavers, we have their name (Meten Sekti) and relics (clothes/vestments/something like that). As they actually have relics of their own, it makes me think that their situation in Irem was more like the one of the Maar Khertet- that is, a recognized Guild. If we look at the current Guilds, we have the Akhem Hebsu as a "sister" of the Sesha Hebsu, and the Maar Khertet as "sister" of the Su Menet. I have already suggested in the other thread that the Mesen Nebu could be seen as the "sister" of the Tef Aabhi, with one is focused on the past and other on the future, and individual versus society, as the two guilds really complete each other IMO. As such, the Maa Kep are left without such "sister Guild"- and perhaps the Meten Sekti could work well as such sister. Both Amulets and Vestments work as symbols of status, but where the Maa Kep walk among their slaves as a secret police, the Meten Sekti should be more about revealed power- clothes are meant to be seen, and clothes make the person. They could serve a roll in matchmaking, something in the style of human resources which selects or chooses the role for every slave. We still need to think what happened to them- we know how the Deceived and the Physicians fell from grace and how hard was the fall, so we can assume that the Weavers have suffered from a similar fate.

          I gave some thought for the suggested Cooks- while I'm not sure that they won't be slaves in Irem's culture, I do think that the Nehedjut could have some interesting place as heretics and witches. The concept of mixing and brewing enchanted food products sounds a lot like witchcraft for me. Perhaps they could work as some form of heresy during the time of Irem, a cult which existed outside of the Law, and found their own way to extend their lives?

          The Trader Guild needs some further thought- I'm pretty sure they shouldn't have their own relics, unless it would be something in the style of "coins". I think that instead of sacrificing relics to Duat, they could "convert" the Sekhem in relics and vestiges into "coins", which could later be "spent" to gain equivalent relics from Duat. That works with their themes of selfishness and conversion of Sekhem instead of preserving Irem's legacy. As I thought about using a form of "body thieves" for their immortality, perhaps they use the Rite of Investment in order to prolong their existence? That is, their bodies may be strong, but they eventually decompose, and they need either to "pay" for their immortality with "coins", or use a baleful variant of the Rite of Investments in order to gain a new body?

          Two more ideas I want to develop would be the Maw of the River and King Shaddad. While I originally worked the Maw as a compact/conspiracy, I wonder if they could serve as some adaption of a minor Guild/Template of "barbarian tribes" from the time of Irem which claim origin to a being from outside the Law (like the Poisoned One). Shaddad is something I'm toying with since Mummy came out- he shows up in the Akhud's writeup, as an demonic idol from the city of Irem, and in mythology, Shaddad was the king of the City of Pillars. I kinda think about him as an option for an "infernal Mummies", a false Judge brought from foreign lands which spreads corruption and evil. Maybe we could connect him to the Trader Guild, as they were the ones who brought him from the lands beyond Irem, and how they gained their immortality (and lost the favor of the Shan'iatu)

          Well, that's what I got for now :P


          Check my STV content, Or My Homebrew

          "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

          I now blog in here

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          • #6
            The Minor Guilds I'm a fan of too. but it of curiosity, do they not share the Memory system and non-linear awakenings like Rite of Return mummies? I would really like to play as an iron spear or Wadjet Mummy

            also, a good minor guild in my opinion would be play writes. a guild that kept legends and cultures and stories alive basically

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Primordial newcomer View Post
              The Minor Guilds I'm a fan of too. but it of curiosity, do they not share the Memory system and non-linear awakenings like Rite of Return mummies? I would really like to play as an iron spear or Wadjet Mummy

              also, a good minor guild in my opinion would be play writes. a guild that kept legends and cultures and stories alive basically
              We currently don't know anything about how Minor Guilds operate. Maybe the antagonists chapter will expand them- but the only way to be certain is that we'll get the stretch goal. I'm waiting for it so much but we just don't hit the 50k limit...

              As for playwrites- theater seems to fall between the Scribes and the Deceived, and its conceptualization as a proper art was more or less a Greek thing (there seems to have been similar practices in Ancient Egypt, but it seems to fall directly into the Deceived's alley).


              Check my STV content, Or My Homebrew

              "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

              I now blog in here

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              • #8
                Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                We currently don't know anything about how Minor Guilds operate. Maybe the antagonists chapter will expand them- but the only way to be certain is that we'll get the stretch goal. I'm waiting for it so much but we just don't hit the 50k limit...

                As for playwrites- theater seems to fall between the Scribes and the Deceived, and its conceptualization as a proper art was more or less a Greek thing (there seems to have been similar practices in Ancient Egypt, but it seems to fall directly into the Deceived's alley).
                my bad. The Deceived already fulfilling that role slipped my mind.

                I really have no idea of another minor guild then. maybe Beast-masters or something. I'm not really good at this Guild thing

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                • #9
                  You think the disciples of the wheel would make a good minor guild?

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