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Ammut the Devourer theories

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Stupid Loserman View Post



    These two answers together provide the core of my thinking on the subject. Anything else is syncretic gravy, finding things that are similar enough in outlook and cosmological role that they can conceivably fit this description as well and be the same thing. There's not much else in the rest of the Chronicles of Darkness setting that's quite close enough to do that.

    There are the Lower Depths, though that is more like mages already having a name for a category that would logically include any cosmic entropic drain, rather than telling us anything new about the maw of Ammut. That's been mentioned.

    Some association could be drawn with the Underworld, but honestly, the CofD Underworld feels less final and ultimately destructive than the WoD's Tempest. The Underworld largely doesn't seem to eat away the things that fall into it. They just decay and wither, forever gnarling and twisting into worse shapes.

    There's one more thing from the books, however, that strikes me as consonant enough with the nature of the Devourer to potentially be another poorly understood manifestation of the same cosmic entity, long and hungry things that hollow out the dead and disgorge them as disfigured slaves, shells of their former selves, to serve an endless mission to eat the world.

    There's the hellmenth.
    Well, the Underworld as of 2e seems to have a malice on its own, and the Ocean of Fragments does kinda look suspicious.

    But good point on the hellminth (spelling?). Got me the good old connecting-the-dots induced goosebumps. Speaking of which, weren’t the hellminth also connected to the Underworld? I may have to reread Summoners...


    MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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    • #32
      What are Hellminth?


      A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post
        What are Hellminth?
        Giant fuck-off worm-things that want to eat the world and leave wastelands and ghosts in their wake. They're supposedly deep within the Underworld and served by a class of ghost called Operators that serve as one of several possible supernatural backers for any given numbers station.

        They were also loosely connected (via the journals of an elder Nosferatu) with a mysterious place explored in Vampire called the Land of the Worms, which is a class of location in the material world where the stuff of life and living is more distant and ghosts form more easily and manifest more readily.

        Mage: Summoners puts them in a separate part of the book from the section detailing entities from the Lower Depths, but as Dave has noted, the two somewhat-divergent approaches to what a Lower Depth is have generally been resolved by making one a subset of the other, so it's quite possible that in 2e they'd be Depths entities if they aren't instead some type of deep-Underworld mega-chthonians.


        Resident Lore-Hound
        Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Satchel View Post
          Mage: Summoners puts them in a separate part of the book from the section detailing entities from the Lower Depths, but as Dave has noted, the two somewhat-divergent approaches to what a Lower Depth is have generally been resolved by making one a subset of the other, so it's quite possible that in 2e they'd be Depths entities if they aren't instead some type of deep-Underworld mega-chthonians.
          Two approaches? Is that "scary hungry place" and "place lacking one or more of the Arcana" or some other divergence? (I'd always assumed that the latter was basically just a likely explanation for mages to come up with for why a Depth realm was the former).

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          • #35
            Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
            Two approaches? Is that "scary hungry place" and "place lacking one or more of the Arcana" or some other divergence? (I'd always assumed that the latter was basically just a likely explanation for mages to come up with for why a Depth realm was the former).
            I tried for the better part of an hour to find the post to no avail yesterday, but here it is:

            Originally posted by Dave Brookshaw View Post

            So... Yeah. This is the result of Mage not having a line Developer at the time, and so two different versions of the Lower Depths both being mentioned in multiple books. There's the Inferno/Imperial Mysteries version, where it's pretty much just the Inferno, and there's the Summoners/Left Hand Path version, where it's strange alien worlds so far off comprehension and surviveability you can't go there.

            Along with "The Supernal World is what you see in Mage Sight", fixing that by declaring one a subset of the other was my first day's work as Developer.


            Resident Lore-Hound
            Currently Consuming: Hunter: the Vigil 1e

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Satchel View Post
              I tried for the better part of an hour to find the post to no avail yesterday, but here it is:
              Thankyou (especially with the time).

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              • #37
                Hmm by default I am assuming Ammut is a primordial aspect of Entropy/Death, representing decline and consumption and very close to the root of the Concept. Replacing Apep's role in the Classic setting.

                Or he could be as mentioned some sort of outsider like the Prince of 100,000 Leaves, maybe an aspect of that sewer Universe which the Duat is connected to that represents the consumption of that fallen world.


                It is a time for great deeds!

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                • #38
                  Ammut is the Lower Depths equivalent to an Incarna, in my games. She comes from a Lower Depth (not Duat!) that lacks a great many things, including Sekhem. She hungers, and the Fallen World is, to her, an unimaginable repast. But, unlike oWoD Oblivion, Ammut is not necessarily a glutton. Like a good hunter, she knows overhunting would deplete the food source and then she’d be back to utter starvation, once more. Better, she reasons, to eat carefully and give the prey time between feasts to replenish themselves.

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                  • #39
                    Isn't the Duat part of the Lower Depths?


                    It is a time for great deeds!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                      Isn't the Duat part of the Lower Depths?
                      It is. But Duat isn’t the entirety of the Lower Depths, which is a collection of realms rather than one big alien dimension. My version of Ammut comes from a realm much deeper down than Duat. She’s extended tendrils throughout the Lower Depths, But has had the most success with Duat.

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