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  • Coming from 2e to Mummy

    I played 1e of World of Darkness for a long time and enjoyed it, but by the time GMC was out, I had started to loathe a lot of things about it, things that 2e has pretty much unilaterally fixed for me.

    I'm intrigued by Mummy and the concept and all that. But I'm pretty worried about the mechanics, since they're based on 1e and haven't been (and won't be) updated for a long while still.

    Are there any hotfixes lying around? Failing those, how has it been to play Mummy for you folks that have been doing a lot of 2e? Is it worthwhile to give it a shot?

    Any help/advice is appreciated.


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  • #2
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...X7tbrTSg/edit#

    Look there. It's PenDragon's Mummy 2e update.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by Dreaminggod View Post
      https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...X7tbrTSg/edit#

      Look there. It's PenDragon's Mummy 2e update.
      Oww, I hadn't seen this before, it's pretty neat.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Dreaminggod View Post
        https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...X7tbrTSg/edit#

        Look there. It's PenDragon's Mummy 2e update.
        Cool.

        Though one wonders how to update Book of the Deceived, too, given how much they rely on shared Virtue/Vices.

        ...Actually, that's the easy part, the Virtue is shared if the Restless Star has a Motivation that resembles said Virtue ("Kind" and "Ambitious" would fit under "Protect and nurture my art and the people it affects", for example), and Vice is shared if Purpose is similar to it ("Hatred" and "Greedy" fits under "Prevent Relics from falling into or staying in the hands of the Judges").

        The Shan'iatu Virtues might be ported as is, they're more functions of the temakh being entwined with their servants' souls.


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        • #5
          Oh hey, I came to shamelessly plug myself, but Dreaminggod beat me to the punch.

          A small note on that document: While it is certainly a (in my experience) functional 2e hack, it is also based around certain other homebrew. Hence the greatly heightened starting attributes and skills, which might not be everyone's cup of tea. Though, if there is any splat who should start with higher than normal skill dots it's Mummies. The Shan'iatu didn't exactly pick average Joe to be their immortal material agents.

          I also did a fair amount of 'powering up' of the template. Greater durability, lower pillar costs, buffed Utterances, which might not sit well with everyone. It was, in my opinion, was a necessary step to keeping Mummies on their god-like throne throne alongside the GMC era splats.

          I'll need to sit down and pour over the Book of the Deceived to see what, if anything, needs to be updated. At first glance it didn't seem like I'd have to do a whole lot.

          Indeed, if anyone has any feedback/question/suggests, both for Arisen or Deceived, I'm all ears.
          Last edited by PenDragon; 11-10-2014, 01:47 PM.


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          • #6
            Yeah. I'm on board with most of it, though I noticed a lack of updated rules for Memory?


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            • #7
              Right. That's probably the biggest hole. I don't track morality mechanically (i.e. I don't have people roll dice or pay experience) so I never bothered to update them. If anyone has done I revision, or wants to collaborate on one, I'm game to add it to the document.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by PenDragon View Post
                Oh hey, I came to shamelessly plug myself, but Dreaminggod beat me to the punch.

                A small note on that document: While it is certainly a (in my experience) functional 2e hack, it is also based around certain other homebrew. Hence the greatly heightened starting attributes and skills, which might not be everyone's cup of tea. Though, if there is any splat who should start with higher than normal skill dots it's Mummies. The Shan'iatu didn't exactly pick average Joe to be their immortal material agents.

                I also did a fair amount of 'powering up' of the template. Greater durability, lower pillar costs, buffed Utterances, which might not sit well with everyone. It was, in my opinion, was a necessary step to keeping Mummies on their god-like throne throne alongside the GMC era splats.

                I'll need to sit down and pour over the Book of the Deceived to see what, if anything, needs to be updated. At first glance it didn't seem like I'd have to do a whole lot.

                Indeed, if anyone has any feedback/question/suggests, both for Arisen or Deceived, I'm all ears.
                Yeah, I don't mind. Everyone's getting buffed, so it makes sense to buff the Arisen, too.

                Also, I had a Condition somewhere for Dreams of Dead Gods, but I think it may have been lost when the archive for the old forums expired. It provided a way out, too, in case it was a PC affected by the Utterance.

                As for Memory, I can offer a few ideas. It should probably be more like Humanity than Harmony, with the Mummy equivalent of Touchstones being things they recognize from previous waking periods...which makes Sadikh automatic Touchstones. This is not a bug.

                I would offer a version of banes, too; self-applied extra duties and taboos from the Judges to help solidify your identity. Yeah, they don't think particularly highly of Memory, but they're happy to fortify it for a waking cycle in return for doing something extra for them.


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                • #9
                  Initial thoughts on memory:
                  • Memory as a measure of morality is right out. It makes no sense as is, and doesn't fit with the GMC paradigm. A Mummy is beyond moral choices, theft, murder, atrocity, their souls cannot be degraded by such human frailties. Only acts that betray their own past, murder of their cultists, destruction of relics, or burning history they forged should cause memory loss.
                  • I like the idea of Memory Touchstones, but with the function reversed. A Mummy's touchstones would be past projects, signs of their previous incarnations that have endured the test of time. Encountering them would provide some form of special experience, that speeds the recovery of their Memory.
                  • Speaking of Experience, I'm not a big fan of spending experience to recover Integrity/Humanity/Memory in general. It feels like something that should be accomplished through roleplay, especially so for splats like Mummies and Prometheans who have 'end states' based on making out their morality stat.
                  • Not certain on Banes, but I do think there should be something the Judges can do to arrest the growth of Memory. Fundamentally the Judges do not want the Arisen to remember. Memories reveal the plots of Irem and encourage individuality, eventually driving towards Apotheosis. At the very least Memory loss from descending into Duat should be more pronounced, with maybe a roll or some other mechanic in place to strip the Memories from an incarnation before it returns. Perhaps Mummies always return at Memory 3, and are thus even more reliant on the artifacts of their previous lives to restore themselves.
                  /brain dump


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PenDragon View Post
                    Memory as a measure of morality is right out. It makes no sense as is, and doesn't fit with the GMC paradigm. A Mummy is beyond moral choices, theft, murder, atrocity, their souls cannot be degraded by such human frailties. Only acts that betray their own past, murder of their cultists, destruction of relics, or burning history they forged should cause memory loss.
                    Jumping on this while Google still has a cache of the presently-defunct WWForums archive:

                    Originally posted by Malcolm
                    The premise of Memory is that compassion is the root of human identity. It's not a hard drive you get increasing access to. If you don't give a shit about people, you're a monster. If you're a monster, you don't need Memory; you just need instincts and a sense of strategy.


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                    • #11
                      I dunno, I suppose I don't buy into that notion. Not least of all because it means that you can't have a high memory Mummy who is also a colossal ass. This, IMO, is one of the triumphs of the Integrity system. In 1e WoD having a high morality/humanity/wisdom/etc. meant also being a gentle, kind soul who did no harm to others. It presented morality as an objective scale, which didn't always jive with people or their character concepts. In 2nd ed this scale is subjective. It's entirely possible to have a high humanity Vampire, who is also a ruthless, uncaring political mastermind. Or (if DaveB's spoilers are any indication) a high Wisdom Mage who has few scruples about killing, just doesn't do it with Magic.

                      So I will not be adding objective moral-niceness breaking points. But whatever comes out should be flexible enough to support them if you want them.


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                      • #12
                        I imagine that Memory was designed with Morality in mind, so how it works was constructed as a sort of backwards justification for its similarities to Morality. I think it's actually a pretty sound idea, though I personally would look at Integrity when considering just what lines to construct it along now.
                        Last edited by Leetsepeak; 11-10-2014, 07:09 PM.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PenDragon View Post
                          Not least of all because it means that you can't have a high memory Mummy who is also a colossal ass.
                          If my detractors are to be believed, one need not be fine with theft, murder, and withholding charity to be considered "a colossal ass."

                          So I will not be adding objective moral-niceness breaking points.
                          I don't recall asking for such or saying that you should. My point of contention was "Memory as Morality doesn't make sense." Memory-as-Integrity, meanwhile, has been highlighted as untenable:

                          Originally posted by Malcolm
                          Changing Memory to work like Integrity is a terrible idea in many, many ways. You can't answer Integrity questions you can't remember, Sekhem fucks up the dice pools, and it fucks with one of the themes of Mummy, which is that identity is not just the disposition of your ego to feel okay about itself.

                          Adapting from Blood and Smoke *might* work better. Might.
                          Last edited by Satchel; 11-10-2014, 07:08 PM.


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                          • #14
                            That's a pretty good point. I guess I was thinking, rather than the mechanics, the principle that some things are very alienating from humanity at large would be the key to why stuff like being an asshole might hurt your Memory score.


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                            • #15
                              Fair enough, and I don't want to totally throw away the notion. But I do think it is important to show how being an immortal, undead god-king can impact your sense of right and wrong. I'd like for there to be Mummies who fully ascribe to the Iremian morality system (Slavery? a-okay! Mass sacrifice? A necessity for the gods.). And those up on their own inflated sense of personal divinity, whose aspirations are little better than those of the Shan'iatu.

                              Hence I'd prefer a flexible Memory system, focusing more on retaining the character's unique sense of self than ascribing to a preconceived moral structure.

                              Edit: A system of regret might better model a Mummies moral compass than straight memory. The idea being that the player defines certain qualities and aspirations that are unlocked as memory increases. If they reach that level, and it turns out the Mummy unknowingly betrayed that quality they are hit with a Condition to represent their emotional turmoil (something like Depressed, Furious, Penitent). This could impact further memory growth, and would provide the missing element of strife.
                              Last edited by PenDragon; 11-10-2014, 07:23 PM.


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