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Hiding Hands[DECEIVED SPOILERS]-How Do You Hide Stuff from the Temakhs?

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  • Hiding Hands[DECEIVED SPOILERS]-How Do You Hide Stuff from the Temakhs?

    So, blarghity blarghity blargh, backstory and explanation about my thought process, to the point: Ascension as a Deceived has got to be tough, because the instant you start thinking along those lines the resident temakh is going to know about it and probably try to stop you. At best, you have a single Descent to really get it done. Heaven forbid you try to plan it out over multiple lifetimes.

    So, let's assume you're planning on achieving this over multiple Descents anyways, for reasons. How do you hide that from the Temakhs? Feel free to answer this with crossover(no fan stuff, please), although for the love of Azar let's answer how each line could contribute to the cause, rather than just (arch/)mages.


    Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
    Working on:The Hedge
    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Kino's Journey

  • #2
    So, I should provide the caveat first off that I have not yet read Book of the Deceived. I probably should, as I've heard really great things about it.

    Anyway, from what I gather, perhaps one solid way is to think like an artist would. Hide your thoughts behind a veil of aesthetics and symbolism. You're not making plans for Ascension, you're considering the way the sun makes its way across the morning sky, and how you could capture that on canvas, what kinds of paints you'd use, what the brushstrokes would look like. Play out a short tune on a piano that becomes a mental key, hum it to yourself when you come across something Ascent-related. Find ways to incorporate clues you've uncovered into the song. Hope that the master artist attached to your soul is too ancient and insane to unravel the symbolism.

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    • #3
      Your temakh can't take away permanent Pillar dots. Foster those while still keeping your temakh happy (i.e. screwing over the Arisen) and you can slip into Ascension with them none the wiser.


      Just call me Lex.

      Female pronouns for me, please.

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      • #4
        Well, their hold over their Mummies isn't perfect anyway - that's what the entire Memory stat represents. And, well, you can't hide raising your Memory, that's why (if memory serves) doing so warrants a Descent roll.

        So what if they do find out? Are they going to drive you back into henet? What good does that do, since the temakh is so bound to the Mummy anyway? Really, going for Ascension is just going to make your time in henet even more horrible, as your temakh chases and hounds you through the astral

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        • #5
          Originally posted by reseru View Post
          So what if they do find out? Are they going to drive you back into henet? What good does that do, since the temakh is so bound to the Mummy anyway? Really, going for Ascension is just going to make your time in henet even more horrible, as your temakh chases and hounds you through the astral
          A lot of the Temakh are described as having the ability to subject their hosts to horrific dreams, possibly waking dreams, that act as a kind of psychological torture in their attempts to scour away traces of personality. The Dancer is supposed to be particularly aggressive in this respect, from memory.

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          • #6
            Plus the incentives offered by other deceived. It's not like the Temakhs are silent.


            Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
            Working on:The Hedge
            The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Kino's Journey

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            • #7
              Hi. New member, thought I'd drop in on a topic tonight. Deceived aren't the only splat to share headspace with something alien that is intractably against the idea of its meatpuppet deciding she's had enough of her roommate and finding the wherewithal to kick it to the curb. I haven't read up on Geist yet, but the Possessed detailed in the sourcebook "Inferno" have rules for hiding thoughts and actions from their personal demon. The central conceit is the possessing demon gets bored of the mundane minutia of everyday life, relaxes its grip on the host and "fade[s] into the background until something rouses its interest." The rules are detailed on pages 121-122 of "Inferno" and could be a good starting point. Of course the Possessed don't seem to have the trouble Deceived have telling which impulses are natural and which come from the cohabitant, so I might be mixing apples and oranges.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by KageMCS View Post
                The central conceit is the possessing demon gets bored of the mundane minutia of everyday life, relaxes its grip on the host and "fade[s] into the background until something rouses its interest."
                That's certainly not far from how the Dancer tends to operate, with its comparative freedom of thought so long as the body of its bearer continues to conform to its wishes.

                I think in the case of hiding things from your Temakh, it's going to depend a lot on which Temakh you actually have. They all have various differing personalities and attention spans. The basic prerequisite of Apotheosis, a 5 dot Cosmic Seba, isn't even going to be that suspicious to acquire for that matter.

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                • #9
                  Still, it's not like you can just plan Mentaar without the Temakhs not noticing. That's kind of a big departure from the norm.


                  Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
                  Working on:The Hedge
                  The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Kino's Journey

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                  • #10
                    The best strategy I can think of is to build instructions to further your mission into the fabric of your cult while your Temakh isn't paying attention, and then deliberately tanking your own Memory. At least until you've finished your preparations and are ready to begin the final ascent. That way they will be resurrecting you with purposes that coincidentally further your progress towards Apotheosis.

                    It does kind of run counter to the principle struggle of Apotheosis though, and doesn't really get around the problem of having to rush Memory 7 from whatever your starting point is.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                      Still, it's not like you can just plan Mentaar without the Temakhs not noticing. That's kind of a big departure from the norm.
                      Noticing, no. They will notice.

                      Being able to do anything is another. Really, the best option that the Temakhs have is to trigger your Descent rolls over and over again with the attempt for the Temakh bleed dry of the stuff so that you'll fail and lose a dot of memory.

                      The Temakh can rinse and repeat as needed until your Memory score is back where it get's hard to differ your desires from it's.

                      That's the nuclear option that Temakhs have which is basically white washing your mind of memory Descent after Descent in a very rapid fashion but that again, limits their time in the world as well so it's not going to be used all that often.

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                      • #12
                        I really wish I had addressed this topic better in the book when I wrote the Apotheosis rules. It's a really good question.

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                        • #13
                          So what's your take on this then? See, I know it can't be as hard as I imagine, because I'm seeing the Temakhs not only triggering descent rolls, but also sending in other Deceived that contain them out to move against them (Which for a singular Descent makes for a great action-based game versus personal exploration game-if yer on the run, do you even have the time to find yourself?-but doesn't work for more "heist" like Ascents), but at the same time It can't be as 'easy'* as the Arisen's Ascents, because of their intimacy with the Temakhs as opposed to the Arisen with the Judges.

                          *And you can't call that easy, really.

                          PS: By the way, sorry I haven't responded yet. I hope to do so on Friday.


                          Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
                          Working on:The Hedge
                          The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Kino's Journey

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                          • #14
                            I really need to think on this issue and probably talk with CAS. Here's my gut answer, and it may change after I've done the requisite thinking and conversation.

                            Fate doesn't permit a temakh to ding you for going after Apotheosis. It's a crack in the temakh control system that they know about, but can't do anything to change because it was just how their Rite of Return turned out and Fate is a stronger force than them. However, you must truly be pursuing Apotheosis, because Fate's protection only applies while you're legitimately chasing this goal.

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                            • #15
                              I don't think the Deceived even need the same temakh. Any temakh with an ounce of self-preservation will use any and all means to get their host to scrub a suspected Ascendee's Memory good. Can't have any rumors of freedom from the shards of god-monster stuck in their heads floating around.

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