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Making Crossover Work for Mummy

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  • #91
    Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
    One thing that cannot be discounted is the Final Purpose(the enactment of judgement upon the sin your Judge is over) and how the supernatural are often obstacles on the way to dealing with that or are even the targets of that. A wide variety of stories exist in chasing that.
    I bet there would be some Beasts who would have fun with that.


    Black Lives Matter

    He/His Pronouns | CofD booklists: Beast I Changeling | Demon | Deviant (WIP) | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire | Werewolf

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
      I bet there would be some Beasts who would have fun with that.
      And that's the other side-the number of beings who would invest in it.

      I still want to have a political confrontation between an Arisen and a True Fae. Or, even better, the High Priest(ess) of a Deceived against a True Fae, but with as much backing from her sponsor as possible.


      Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
      The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
      Feminine pronouns, please.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
        And that's the other side-the number of beings who would invest in it.

        I still want to have a political confrontation between an Arisen and a True Fae. Or, even better, the High Priest(ess) of a Deceived against a True Fae, but with as much backing from her sponsor as possible.
        ...Now I kinda wish I had added Mummy to the Seven Wonders Era.
        (Not that I regret anything, Promethean in Great War will be awesome.)


        Black Lives Matter

        He/His Pronouns | CofD booklists: Beast I Changeling | Demon | Deviant (WIP) | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire | Werewolf

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
          ...Now I kinda wish I had added Mummy to the Seven Wonders Era.
          (Not that I regret anything, Promethean in Great War will be awesome.)
          I can't say I regret a choice I've seen yet.


          Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
          The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
          Feminine pronouns, please.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
            ...Now I kinda wish I had added Mummy to the Seven Wonders Era.
            (Not that I regret anything, Promethean in Great War will be awesome.)
            Promethan in Great War will be a blessing, so thanks for that that. But yeah, I do get what you're saying


            Cinder's Comprehensive Collection of Creations - Homebrew Hub

            I write about Beast: The Primordial a lot

            This is what I'm working on

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            • #96
              FWIW, the crossover sections from Vampire's Thousand Years of Nights is a good start for any crossover with long-living CofD splats. Including Mummies.

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              • #97
                Except that, despite discussing other long-lived splats, it doesn't include mummies...the longest 'living' splat.

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                • #98
                  This is going to sound strange, because it's not specifically a piece of Mummy centric advice, but hear me out.

                  For my own World of Darkness setting, in terms of crossover games, one of the fundamental aspects of it is that Vampires are absolutely, 100%, always in control. That's not to say that they are in every region at every moment, but on a global sense, they have thoroughly infiltrated every aspect of society and have won.

                  Period.

                  Nothing is going to change that. Not because they're the most powerful, but because they're the most numerous of all the monsters and they are the most politically shrewd.

                  Why is this such an important aspect of my setting?

                  For the exact same reason that no matter what Robocop does, it won't change the fact that OCP has already conquered the world. As a dramatic device, it frames anything the PCs or main characters do as a noble sacrifice.

                  So to bring it back to Mummy, highlight the fact that despite their immense power, pride and own machinations, the Arisen are dumbfounded to learn they are NOT the top dog.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Marengo View Post
                    This is going to sound strange, because it's not specifically a piece of Mummy centric advice, but hear me out.

                    For my own World of Darkness setting, in terms of crossover games, one of the fundamental aspects of it is that Vampires are absolutely, 100%, always in control. That's not to say that they are in every region at every moment, but on a global sense, they have thoroughly infiltrated every aspect of society and have won.

                    Period.

                    Nothing is going to change that. Not because they're the most powerful, but because they're the most numerous of all the monsters and they are the most politically shrewd.

                    Why is this such an important aspect of my setting?

                    For the exact same reason that no matter what Robocop does, it won't change the fact that OCP has already conquered the world. As a dramatic device, it frames anything the PCs or main characters do as a noble sacrifice.

                    So to bring it back to Mummy, highlight the fact that despite their immense power, pride and own machinations, the Arisen are dumbfounded to learn they are NOT the top dog.
                    Interesting. To me, it is always the Seers that are the ones on top.


                    But I agree, having the Mummies realize there are other, similar, powerful groups with advantages over them (numbers, rising power rather than declining, not bothered with downtime as mummies are etc) could kick off all sort of plot.

                    Warring cults is also a thing: being the top dog of your little group of people, you have to step in if someone is muscling in on your turf (from their point of view, it might be the other way around). Now what's going to happen if you go to deal with the problem, an it turns out to be ruled by a group of supernaturally gifted humans, or a dragon - souled being, or a mechanical monstrosity in hiding?

                    On the other hand, a number of beasts would love to Team up, and a lot of mages certainly would be more than curious to study the Mummy and its relics. So maybe the Mummy learns about the other splats by them approaching her with non-malicious intent?

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                    • I guess the thing to remember with Mummies is that they don't really need to care who runs the world. Mortal affairs are just a matter of convenience, and so long as they have a lockdown on the local art dealerships/museums/airports/customs offices anything beyond that is basically a luxury. Remember that many Arisen look at the modern world and all its incredible technology and feel like it's familiar. Empires rise and empires fall. Does it matter to an Arisen if a vampire rules the USA? Only if that vampire is actively making it difficult for the Arisen to complete their mission and find relics for their Judge. And even with a vampire's immortality, they're not invulnerable. One day the Arisen will wake up and the vampire will be gone. Might take longer than a mortal ruler, but even the Shan'iatu vanished from this world (weeeeeeell, with seven notably fragmented exceptions).

                      The other critical part of this is that Mummies are not rulers. They were the working middle class in life, and they remain so in death. Craftsmen once, and now agents of Lovecraftian monster gods. I'm not sure that the revelation that they aren't the top dog is necessarily going to be a big shock to them when it's been an intrinsic fact for all six thousand years of their existence.

                      Don't get me wrong. Power and pride and certainly massive parts of the Arisen's cultural psyche. They're godlike beings serving literal gods and have a view on the secret history of the world that allows them to look at all of mortal man's achievements and dismiss them as just children aping their missing parents. There are shocks and subversions aplenty to play with there, and remember that at least as many Arisen look at the modern world and find it daunting, alien, like nothing they've experienced in all their long history. I'm just not sure, thematically, that the best route to go down to shock a Mummy is, "Who actually rules this world?" when they spend their downtime sitting at the right hand of the rulers of the next world.
                      Last edited by Azahul; 05-02-2018, 01:28 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by Azahul View Post
                        I guess the thing to remember with Mummies is that they don't really need to care who runs the world. Mortal affairs are just a matter of convenience, and so long as they have a lockdown on the local art dealerships/museums/airports/customs offices anything beyond that is basically a luxury. Remember that many Arisen look at the modern world and all its incredible technology and feel like it's familiar. Empires rise and empires fall. Does it matter to an Arisen if a vampire rules the USA? Only if that vampire is actively making it difficult for the Arisen to complete their mission and find relics for their Judge. And even with a vampire's immortality, they're not invulnerable. One day the Arisen will wake up and the vampire will be gone. Might take longer than a mortal ruler, but even the Shan'iatu vanished from this world (weeeeeeell, with seven notably fragmented exceptions).

                        The other critical part of this is that Mummies are not rulers. They were the working middle class in life, and they remain so in death. Craftsmen once, and now agents of Lovecraftian monster gods. I'm not sure that the revelation that they aren't the top dog is necessarily going to be a big shock to them when it's been an intrinsic fact for all six thousand years of their existence.

                        Don't get me wrong. Power and pride and certainly massive parts of the Arisen's cultural psyche. They're godlike beings serving literal gods and have a view on the secret history of the world that allows them to look at all of mortal man's achievements and dismiss them as just children aping their missing parents. There are shocks and subversions aplenty to play with there, and remember that at least as many Arisen look at the modern world and find it daunting, alien, like nothing they've experienced in all their long history. I'm just not sure, thematically, that the best route to go down to shock a Mummy is, "Who actually rules this world?" when they spend their downtime sitting at the right hand of the rulers of the next world.
                        Oh, I never meant that you should try and shock them with "who actually rules the world" (totally agree, they wouldn't care to much), but to make dealing with other supernaturals a problem. No one likes being blindsided, and everyone gets a bit stressed when they feel like they cannot get a job done in time. The more's at stake, the more you'll try and get it done right. Put those two together, and presto.

                        Mummies know, more or less, what other Arisen are capable of. But a sudden Garou-form from-and-to-the-Shadow 'drive by' is going to catch even them flatfooted, most likely. It poses a problem, a question that needs solving: how can I stop those attacks? Doing your job of leading the cult is hard if you cannot keep the people alive or your image secure.
                        If a cult that has become the target of a Pack that decided this is the best way to hunt their new prey (maybe with some prompting from more familiar enemy forces even?) and exterminate the cult has a reduced lifespan - especially if the Pack uses their access to specialties that are not as natural for Mummies. And if Uratha can do one thing, it is to hunt.

                        Maybe a Beast has decided to teach the Cult, or even the Arisen, a Lesson. A Begotten going this far (picking trouble with a Mummy is no joke, after all) is no doubt quite advanced in their Legend, perhaps even Incarnate. That poses a problem, especially if the Lesson in question is something along the line of "You cannot trust those who hide" or other anti-cult messages. And maybe their collector Broodmate has decided to steal your Relics, and for some reason, they're now in a spot you cannot reach - there is no way for you to get them back. That's a quite serious problem...

                        Maybe the cult is a problem for the city's Prince. Being undermined left and right, having people abducted, turned into spies, brainwashed to tell all secrets is always a problem. Having very long-lifed creatures of the night make you a target poses a long-term problem, and that is something even Mummies have to deal with - just imagine what could happen if a Cult is subverted to the point they actively work to turn the Mummy into a tool for Kindred? Manipulating evidence, faking records, etc. It'd be a long con, sure, but well worth it.

                        Maybe the city's Wise caught wind of the Mummy and want to study, or the Mummy gets caught between two warring factions each trying to win them for their cause or at least set them off against the others. Guardians of the Veil can be a pain in the ass, considering all the cover-ups they routinely do, and how skilled they are at subverting people and making things like they never happened.

                        What if the Mummy's current task is opposed to a Ring due to the Infrastructure involved?
                        What if a Throng tried to become part of the Cult while the Mummy was down, and now a sizeable portion of the Cult foregoes their duties in favor of Disquiet - hunting down a Throng can be tiresome.

                        etc etc

                        The important thing is, I think, to stay true to Mummy's themes, but add a dash of the other splat's, like a day in the limelight episode: the story's the same, but the mood is slightly different for a while.
                        Play up the weirdness and danger of Firestorms, confront the Mummy with the Spirit world, and make it wonder at the marvels of the Hedge.
                        Make it feel fear for the first time in ages when hunting after a Beast and getting lost in the Primordial, entering long-lost chambers that trigger half-remembered memories best left forgotten...
                        Have the Mummy be caught up in an intricate web of lies and favours by a Vampire they remember from back then (a long-lost love-interest who choose some sort of immortality to be with their beloved, perchance?), where one thing leads to the next (it's always the easier path, always the more sensible/reasonable path, always the seemingly-right path...), and the goal is always slightly out of reach, just to have the mummy realize that half-life's dangling a carrot at their nose. Let the player relish dishing out their sorta-divine fury, and have them deal with the consequences (set-backs, maybe Vinculum, maybe an early Descent, maybe having spent so much time busy with something else they are pretty depowered now).
                        Have them meet Mages who let them hope against hope that there might be a way to stabilize their memory - all the mages need are some information, maybe a Relic or two... and you need to get going to certain places with them, so they can take a look at walls covered in long-dead languages while something tries to chase you out. What if it fails? Worse, what if it actually works, somehow, and the Mummy has to deal with eternities of memories they'd rather forget? What if is just a ploy by the mages to plant fake memories?

                        Less "ohmygosh, you mean to tell me we're NOT the bosses?" and more "What the hell's going on?!"

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                        • I was more commenting on Marengo's post than your own, Wormwood. Although I'm not necessarily sure that other supernatural beings are necessarily the best way to take a Mummy out of their comfort zone. Mummy features frequent plot hooks naturally hinging on discovering the true nature of the Arisen's own setting. My Jakarta game actually had the concept of "Shuankhsen" as a major revelation to the player characters, since none of them had recorded information on the existence of such beings nor encountered in them in their immediately prior cycle. Having something weird and new and full of fangs hurl itself at them is going to take them by surprise but I'm not sure it's a story worth building into crossover for when it's something Arisen experience naturally in their own corner of the Chronicles cosmology. Bewildering an amnesiac is no great feat.

                          I'm not a huge fan of crossover in general, I tend to like sticking my games in neat and tidy boxes, but if I were to tie Mummies into other campaigns I'd be looking more heavily at the companion splats for what the Arisen can do for them thematically and narratively rather than the other way around. You can contrive an Arisen's involvement in most supernatural goings on pretty easily (i.e. Cult gets spooked, calls on guardian to investigate), and the present of a raging Arisen always adds fun complications to any plot.

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                          • (Shakes off the dust of ages.)

                            Wow, this thread is still here and getting posts three years later.

                            These day's I'm not running anything, and I don't have the free time I used to when I was running games, but that does give me free time to think about things like these sorts of topics a bit.

                            Thanks to the Dark Era's books I'm much more open to the idea of "time hopping" into different periods for sorta "mini-campaigns" that gradually build up into a story set over a span of in game years. Which I feel obviously compliments Mummy the most out of all the game lines, since you can literally have the same character in multiple settings. Though obviously it benefits other long lived splats like Vampires as well. Nothing saying that you could not pick a "splat" for each of the periods you decided to run a game in.

                            While not a "traditional" crossover, in that the groups would never have multiple splats running around as PC's together, I would still consider it a crossover game. Since including all the different games in different periods means, as an ST you have to work out the consequences of these supernatural creatures presence in the world interact with the others. Likewise, you have to decide how their differing metaphysics and social/cultural history interact (or don't).

                            One thing I've come to appreciate about crossover games after a few screws up experiences is that while you can make any of the games work as crossovers, that's not to say you should do so. I think trying to through all the gamelines into one world now we have about twelve of them is asking for a headache. However, when it comes to internal consistency and supernatural metaphysics anybody with knowledge of the setting and creative impulse can justify or make up pretty much anything. In the past I've run some pretty big multi-line crossovers e.g. Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Promethean, Hunter, Changling, Geist and mini-splats from blue books. Even with me pinning stuff down at the start it got messy quickly. After that game I've always limited myself to about two game crossovers e.g. Vampire and Changeling or Mummy and Changeling.

                            When I've been considering the wider ramifications in-universe for crossovers I've always had a problem with power balance in my crossover games. In terms of NPC interactions and verisimilitude in the setting. Mainly because the splats are not balanced against each other (nor should they be). In the past I've had a nasty habit of getting a little too overzealous with all the shiny powers in the toolbox of these games when making NPC's. Which kinda drives the game away from the tone of Urban Supernatural Horror and into outright Urban Fantasy. CoD does the former really well, the latter, not so much. So I'm trying to avoid that impulse and problem these days.

                            To draw this point back to my idea of a "time hopping" crossover, parceling out the different game lines into their own mini-campaigns can help with this I feel. Because the tone of each game is different and one of the worries of crossovers is weakening those specific tones. Each mini-campaign can be true to its core games tone without clashing with any other.

                            So, since I've waffled on about this hypothetical game for ages now lets bring this topic back to Mummy.

                            As I mentioned in my post three years ago, for me including Mummy in a setting always has wider ramifications for the history of that setting. Mainly because Mummy is a game about history (well and identity, but that links in nicely). Be that the personal history (and Memory) of a given Arisen or about wider history of Irem.

                            You have to ask questions such as: How important was Irem to supernatural world history really?

                            In my last game I ran (a Changeling/Mummy crossover) I made Irem one of the two most important bits of supernatural history in the world. Because that's what that game needed.

                            For a hypothetical game that's a Hunter/Mummy crossover I'd be inclined to make it an important supernatural word event in history but not really world shaping. The vast majority of supernatural critters don't have anything to do with it. Mummy's have a handle on stuff that is linked to it, but they are only aware and interact with a tiny bit of the larger supernatural world. I'd take that approach because I think a key part of Hunter is figuring out what a monster is and how it works and sometimes realizing that you think you have a handle on something when you don't.

                            Another consideration to have out of game is to consider the tone. Mortal and Hunter are the two lowest "powered" games by default for the PCs, and that promotes a certain tone of mystery/investigation and vulnerability in them. I like that about them (these days I have other games, like Scion, to go to when I want very power PC/NPC stories), in fact, its the reason that if I do ever run another CoD game, it will likely involve one or both of those lines (jury's out of Deviant, I like the idea but I want to see how low powered you can actually make them before committing).

                            So, why the hell am I adding Mummy to the mix? Its a game where you call down meteors on your foes and crack city's with earthquakes. Surely that goes against tone right?

                            For me, Mummy's is the game that you can use to contrast these "lower power tier" games. The fact its tone and default power setting are so different it what makes it stand out and I think hammers home both its tone and the tones present in the other games on my list. At least, I think it can serve that purpose in a "parceled" style crossover.

                            The other thing that Mummy can add to a "time hopping" collection of mini-campaigns is a sense of consistency in the world. Even if an Arisen does not show up in each time period the presence of the Arisen (as a splat type) can be used to make things feel connected. A cult can be present (though likely altered) across all the time periods.

                            For example, maybe if your playing mortals at the start of the in-game timeline you join an organisation to help your investigation into supernatural events occurring around you. In the next time period you find out that organisation is part of a larger mystery cult run by a Meret of Arisen (who you are now playing). This same cult then become the antagonists for a group of Hunters in a third time period. Alternatively, they might be funding a company that created some Deviants, something said PC Deviants can find out over the course of their mini-campaign.

                            That's a direct involvement with the players across three time periods and three sets of characters. As an ST you could use them more subtly then that. Maybe a relic is part of a side-quest that's unimportant for the Mortals or Hunters that interact with it, but is very important in the Mummy section of the game. Going even more tangential you could simply have something like Last Dynesty inc be a prominent background feature that never directly relates to the plots of any of the periods, but is a presence that the players can acknowledge in all time periods during in-character conversations.

                            These days, if I'm honest I'd wait and see what Mummy 2E shapes up like before I really planned out a Mummy Crossover with any of the other 2E gamelines (which is basically every other gameline now). Mainly for mechanical reasons. Though also because I think each 2E has made its game more friendly towards crossover in general and I'd like to hope that trend will continue into Mummy.

                            Yep three years later and I still can't seem to write a concise post on these boards.
                            Last edited by Hawthorn; 06-10-2018, 09:27 AM.


                            "There is no God in the Badlands." - Sunny

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                            • What about the Decived I imagine one that hangs out with a group changlings amd there Temkehs Behest For Knowledge purposes

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