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Pangea and the Ki-En-Gir

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  • Pangea and the Ki-En-Gir

    So, as of the Dark Eras: Neolithic chapter that we are getting the pre-Sundering Border Marches were surprisingly recent in their existence. They were inhabited by physical entities with the power of great spirits, some of which might be considered gods (among which were Father Wolf).

    The Ki-En-Gir fielded sorcerers who claimed to be one-third divine against the forces of the Shan'iatu.

    Maybe they were on to something about that heritage ... maybe their ancestors mated with the natives of the Border Marches before they collapsed?


    Revlid wrote:
    Yes, hollowing out your humanity to become an utterly utilitarian asura is the exact suggestion I would expect from you, Aiden.

  • #2
    It sounds very likely when you put it like that, doesn't it?

    Man I love that Neolithic Mage got turned into a Werewolf crossover era.

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    • #3
      Given that the First Tongue shares intense similarities to Sumerian, it wouldn't surprise me to have some pretty thick ties between Ki-En-Gir and some of the spirit gods.

      We can't forget about the Werewolf god-kings of Bau, either.


      Remi. she/her. game designer.

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      • #4
        As odd as this sounds, the Brineborn ought to be iterations more influential and well-known in ancient Sumeria.

        It'd be interesting if this was reflected - would the Forsaken be comfortable with a history which paints them as the inferiors to the FISH SHIFTERS of all folks? But seriously, the Ki En Gir had a vast cultural respect for Brineborn which was serious enough that actual Sumerian religion is largely based upon the idea of fish-people mystics with sagelike powers emerging from the deep.

        I have a question! Are these Border Marches mentioned in other gamelines I'm unfamiliar with, like Changeling or Mage?

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        • #5
          As I mentioned in another thread on this forum somewhere, ancient Sumerian piscine sages are already referenced in Werewolf 2e.

          The Border Marches are not generally mentioned in other game lines because they ceased to exist in a meaningful state many millennia ago; that they ever existed at all is important to Werewolf mythos and the spirit world, but most other lines don't have the same interaction with the spirit world in the first place.


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          • #6
            Free Council mentions the Gauntlet being it's own very weird realm. It's full of weird trilobites that seem to congregate where the Gauntlet is highest. I very much doubt it's meant to be part of a broader cosmology though.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
              Given that the First Tongue shares intense similarities to Sumerian, it wouldn't surprise me to have some pretty thick ties between Ki-En-Gir and some of the spirit gods.

              We can't forget about the Werewolf god-kings of Bau, either.
              Bau's not for two thousand more years.


              Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
              The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
              Feminine pronouns, please.

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              • #8
                True but Ki-En-Gir isn't there yet either.
                I'm a little unclear of the exact timing but I thought Ki-En-Gir & Bau were rather close together. A case of couple of centuries at most.

                Still that is a little off topic. I fully support the idea that the 'one third divine' ruler was descendant from a Pangean and had good relations with (if s/he was not) the Brineborn.


                Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Michael View Post
                  Free Council mentions the Gauntlet being it's own very weird realm. It's full of weird trilobites that seem to congregate where the Gauntlet is highest. I very much doubt it's meant to be part of a broader cosmology though.

                  That's the hole where the Border Marches, also known as Pangaea, used to exist. Life is still there, in the form of those trilobites.

                  Presumably, though rarer, there would be azlu nests. Sort of floating labyrinthine web tunnels full of azlu, both luthazlu and azarath, along with the desiccated remains of eons worth of prey. Or not.
                  Last edited by nofather; 06-21-2015, 07:52 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Piff View Post
                    As odd as this sounds, the Brineborn ought to be iterations more influential and well-known in ancient Sumeria.

                    It'd be interesting if this was reflected - would the Forsaken be comfortable with a history which paints them as the inferiors to the FISH SHIFTERS of all folks? But seriously, the Ki En Gir had a vast cultural respect for Brineborn which was serious enough that actual Sumerian religion is largely based upon the idea of fish-people mystics with sagelike powers emerging from the deep.

                    I have a question! Are these Border Marches mentioned in other gamelines I'm unfamiliar with, like Changeling or Mage?
                    My personal headcanon is that the Forsaken had a hostile takeover. The Uratha have been known for killing Brineborn and having a distaste for them, if I remember War Against the Pure correctly.


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                    • #11
                      Perhaps the sorcerers of Ki En Gir were to the Brineborn what the Wolf-Blooded are to the Uratha. With or without the aid of full-on fish-shifters they could have practiced Rites, and possibly bribed or compelled spirits to aid them against the forces of Irem.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ArcaneArts View Post
                        Bau's not for two thousand more years.

                        You shot who in the what now?

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                        • #13
                          Okay. Back Step.

                          The Dog Kings of Sumer fell to the armies of King Gudea of Lagash, who ruled from 2144 BCE to 2124 BCE. I don't know how long the Forsaken ran as demigods, but going from Gudea's start, it's been 1688 years since the fall of the Nameless Empire. The Bird and the Bull takes place in 5500 BCE, came before the rise of the Empire, and has a distance of 3356 years from when Gudea started his reign.

                          Now, how is that relevant?

                          No idea. I forgot why I brought that up.


                          Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                          The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                          Feminine pronouns, please.

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                          • #14
                            What if there really were human-spirits at one time, and either the Shan'iatu or Ki--an-Gir (or both) were such. (Maybe the Shan'iatu had consumed most of their kin, become very powerful, but weren't satisfied with their metaphysical condition, wanting to be qualitatively more than spirits, not just a powerful example?

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                            • #15
                              What if they went off and stormed the heavens and became supernal symbols of something or other?

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