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How long did the Nameless Empire last?

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  • #16
    I personally like the idea of The Nameless Empire being relatively short-lived. I feel like it serves to emphasize the alienness of the Deathless and the gulf separating them from existing human cultures. For the world at large, the Empire was a blip, a hideous flower that blossomed and withered in the blink of an eye, and thereafter was largely forgotten. Even in Egypt, the most important gods of Irem were soon relegated to relatively minor roles or forgotten completely. As much as the Judges and the Guilds want to claim that every later empire has merely been a pale reflection of the first, the fact of the matter is that the Nameless Empire just wasn't that important.

    That is, it wasn't that important to the history of the mortal world. To the Deathless it's everything. Mummies are trapped in the roles they held in an empire that's not only long-gone, but which wasn't even a footnote in history by the time they began their first Descents.

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    • #17
      I had originally thought the empire was longer, but rereading Dreams of Avarice and Book of the Deceived, the "hermitage" the shaniatu went into after Azar's murder was specifically pointed out as around a whole millenium. So, that left roughly 500 years for the City of Irem, 400 years for the empire. While I initially didn't like the Empire being so brief, it DOES put it on a manageable scale. When Sothis Ascends came out, I tried to give "burial dates" to all of my mummies, but.. I had trouble figuring out logistics. 400 Years is something easier to work with, in terms of Irem's timeline.

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      • #18
        Huh. I completely missed the line describing their hermitage as a thousand-year ordeal. Guess that solves that.

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        • #19
          I can't remember, are there references to the Nameless Empire wielding bronze. I'm fine with it if there are - they had supernatural alchemy, being ahead of the curve on metallurgy makes sense, I'm just trying to recall if it's actually mentioned. Or iron for that matter if they were SUPER ahead of the curve...


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          • #20
            Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
            I can't remember, are there references to the Nameless Empire wielding bronze. I'm fine with it if there are - they had supernatural alchemy, being ahead of the curve on metallurgy makes sense, I'm just trying to recall if it's actually mentioned. Or iron for that matter if they were SUPER ahead of the curve...
            The section on Regia describes Pyropus, a form of magical bronze; it also says Irem had regular bronze as well.


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            • #21
              Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

              The section on Regia describes Pyropus, a form of magical bronze; it also says Irem had regular bronze as well.
              So they were likely the first people on earth to forge bronze, but didn't wield iron. The iron question is important for me as I have certain important metaphysical shifts involving the True Fae and Changelings that don't happen until humans first start working iron.


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              • #22
                Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                So they were likely the first people on earth to forge bronze, but didn't wield iron. The iron question is important for me as I have certain important metaphysical shifts involving the True Fae and Changelings that don't happen until humans first start working iron.
                Dreams of Avarice includes a footnote that states Irem did not use iron on page 29.


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                • #23
                  So, here's a thought that occurred to me. We know that Irem crushed the early Ki-En-Gir, bringing an end to the Ubaid period. It is worth noting that, historically, the aridification that preceded (or, in Mummy's case, followed) the fall of Ubaid was part of the 5.9 kiloyear event. That has been mentioned here on the forums before as a pretty good indicator of when the Rite of Return was performed, but I don't think the 8.2 kiloyear event or the 4.2 kiloyear event were brought up.

                  The 8.2 Kiloyear event is around Sothic Turn -2, which is roughly around the birth of Azar. The 4.2 Kiloyear event is around Sothic Turn 1. Coincidence? Or Iremite Sorcery?

                  Oh, and then there's Nabta Playa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabta_Playa A Neolithic settlement oddly more advanced than their neighbours, with a stone circle aligned to the turn of Orion and Sirius. Better known to the Ancient Egyptians as Sah and Sopdet. Sopdet was, as you know, associated with Aset, while Sah was associated with Azar. Early followers of the temakh?


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                  • #24
                    Keep in mind that most Neolithic archaeology of Egypt are in Upper Egypt specifically because the millennia of silt layering makes site recovery in the Delta next to impossible. So there's a HUGE blank space in our knowledge here that Irem itself and its predecessor cultures can easily fit.

                    I'm more inclined to give Nabta Playa (being as far as it is from the Nile) to Bull-worshipping Wise and have it been a thorn in the side of Nile-clinging Temakh before the rise of the Nameless Empire.


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