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  • #46
    Actually, my favorite episode from the bloody history of the Merovingians is the rivalry of Fredegund and Brunhilda. It's a long and complex story, but basically Fredegund was the low-born mistress of King Chilperic of Neustria (one of three Frankish kingdoms at the time), who conspired to assassinate his queen Galswintha, and subsequently married him herself. Galswintha's sister Brunhilda was the wife of Sigebert, King of Austrasia (another Frankish kingdom), who persuaded her husband to go to war to avenge the death of Galswintha.

    Fredegund ordered the assassination of Sigebert, and Brunhilda may or may not have later arranged the death of Chilperic. The two queens continued to exercise power though their children and (in Brunhilda's case) grandchildren as they carried out a bloody feud that went on until they were both finally dead. It's pretty epic, and includes episodes like Fredegund riding into battle with her young son in her arms in order to rally the Neustrian troops against an invading army, and Brunhilda engineering the defamation and death of her elder grandson in order to promote his younger brother, who was more receptive to her influence.
    Last edited by CatDoom; 03-21-2016, 11:50 PM.

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    • #47
      I have a religion question for the First Turn if any Egyptologists in the house can comment.

      So the Cult of Re is ascendant and centered in Iunu (Heliopolis). It won't be usurped by Waset (Thebes, who will merge Re with Amun) until the dawn of the New Kingdom after the Hyksos are repelled.

      As the Great House of the Fifth Dynasty is itself centered in Inbu-Hedj (Memphis), wouldn't that imply that while Re's Cult is politically ascendant, religious doctrine still favors Ptah as the "first being" and holds him in special regard?

      Meanwhile, how much is Khmun's (Hermopolis) upholding of their Ogdoad, completely ignoring Re and the rest of the Pesedjet of Iunu likely to be a political issue if the Cult of Re is that powerful?
      Last edited by glamourweaver; 04-09-2016, 07:54 PM.


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      • #48
        There's three main religious changes in the near-immediate aftermath of the First Turn:

        First, and most important, this is when Osiris/Azar was invented. Or, in Mummy's backstory, re-introduced to humans by the Arisen.

        Second, as stated in the setting, this is where people start leaving autobiographical inscriptins on their to,bs, and where the first texts that will become the book of the dead appear.

        Third, (this may have been trimmed out for space, can't remember) the notion of a "pantheon" comes out of Azar's growing popularity during the turn, people don't have much of an idea of an organization or family of the gods. The various powerful faiths are the fertile soil for the idea of a Pesedjet. The membership of which does keep evolving over time, and even has disagreements between people using alternate lists of gods.


        Dave Brookshaw, Mage and Deviant Developer, writer of many things

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        • #49
          While AFAIK, yes, Ptah was still the first being, especially as h was the god of the capital, but whether he got interpreted with a subservian relationship to Re the way Heru did, IDK. It's that kind of theological question that leads people to invent a pantheon to keep the relations straight.


          Dave Brookshaw, Mage and Deviant Developer, writer of many things

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          • #50
            Here's the thing about Ancient Egypt. The fictional concept of Irem aside, what the nation really was was an enormous collection of separate tribes that all naturally converged on the most fertile portions of an otherwise hostile desert- the black soil around the Nile. The Nile acted as a conduit for trade and eventually conquest. The nation of Egypt grew out of the separate worship of hundreds (maybe thousands) of gods, some of which were connected with one another and others utterly separate. Over thousands of years various gods were in ascendance or fallen out of favor. Pesedjet, from my understanding, is as much an acknowledgment by the Egyptians that these disparate traditions, myths and gods are not all neatly connected to one another but depend as much on city and region as anything.

            In other words, there isn't necessarily a direct conflict brewing between the cults of Ra and Ptah. Most of the time the Egyptians let the local courts keep their own traditions and just added the more wide spread traditions of their national god. In the Old Kingdom, the national god was Ra, the middle generally was Osiris, and the New Kingdom favored Amun. That's a broad statement with many exceptions. But all told, it was rare for a Pharaoh to try to totally usurp the worship of one deity with another (worship of the Aten is so interesting precisely because it is a rare exception to this behavior). Far more common was for the national deity to adopt certain aspects of a locally popular god- which is why you hear so much about deities with combined names like Amun-Ra. So I imagine the two cults combined some of their important rites and holy days into Ra-Ptah as a show of unity and respect for the power of the Pharaoh, while still holding separate services for their respective deities and worshipers. Ptah would likely continue to be very important in his home city while Ra grows in importance and popularity on a national level. That's not to say there aren't ANY conflicts between the cults- they each have their own treasuries and depend on donations, niche market services, and of course the favor of the Pharaoh for their survival. There was no doubt plenty of backstabbing and intrigues between the temples, akin to feuding nobles in a medieval king's court. It just rarely reached the level of a holy war wherein one god's followers tried to wipe out another god's worship (again, Atenism being an important exception). Importantly, both the cults of Ra and Ptah were expected to serve the Pharaoh and uphold Ma'at. So any rivalry between the two had to be kept secret and not disrupt the Pharaoh's court. Especially for Ptah's priests, since the Pharaoh's house for much of this period is firmly a follower of the sun god (and thus likely to be biased in their favor).

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            • #51
              Do the Deceived begin the First Turn with Utterances? There's no reason for them missing Blessed is the God-king, and I'd imagine their temakhs 'taught' their Mummies the spells

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              • #52
                Originally posted by reseru View Post
                Do the Deceived begin the First Turn with Utterances? There's no reason for them missing Blessed is the God-king, and I'd imagine their temakhs 'taught' their Mummies the spells

                ... wait... did the Deceived even have to wait till the First Turn? They obviously don't experience Henet in the same way... could they not go corporeal till the First Turn?

                Them being potentially active the entire Long Henet would shine some light on several mysteries that seem to have required Sekhem lore (like the Sphinx).


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                • #53
                  It sounds like the Sphinx goes back to Irem, if Dreams of Avarice is anything to go by.

                  That said, the Book of the Deceived does make it sound like the Deceived didn't wake until the First Turn either. Although it is possible that Imhotep may have been a single exception. Weird things happen.

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                  • #54
                    Couldn't the Arisen have theoretically have awakened earlier if someone disturbed their rest?

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Azahul View Post
                      It sounds like the Sphinx goes back to Irem, if Dreams of Avarice is anything to go by.

                      That said, the Book of the Deceived does make it sound like the Deceived didn't wake until the First Turn either. Although it is possible that Imhotep may have been a single exception. Weird things happen.
                      I don't think Imhotep was Arisen or Deceived. Though a Deceived source of Irem/Sekhem lore he employed is possible.

                      Dark Eras makes me 88% certain about what's going on with Imhotep.
                      Last edited by glamourweaver; 04-15-2016, 06:52 AM.


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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
                        ... wait... did the Deceived even have to wait till the First Turn? They obviously don't experience Henet in the same way... could they not go corporeal till the First Turn?

                        Them being potentially active the entire Long Henet would shine some light on several mysteries that seem to have required Sekhem lore (like the Sphinx).
                        Yeah, I'd err on them sleeping, too. Sothis Ascends implies that much with them at least. Thinking about it some more, I don't think the sha were around to help out the Deceived, you know? Fate has other plans for them, and the temakhs mastered Utterances long before they were bound to corpse-slaves

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                          I don't think Imhotep was Arisen or Deceived. Though a Deceived source of Irem/Sekhem lore he employed is possible.

                          Dark Eras makes me 88% certain about what's going on with Imhotep.
                          You say that, but I had a player in my Deceived campaign who named his character Imhotep. And that was before Sothis Ascends came out. I think it's self-evident that the character in question was Imhotep. Practically official canon, really.

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                          • #58
                            With all the concept that is going to be forthcoming (Mortals wielding Sekhem and making Relics? yes please.), I am yet left wondering about one final thing that hasn't been touched on.

                            Our dear friend Anpu. He is something the Arisen encounter every time they end up in Duat and thus the being that they will interact with at some point or another. Always would like to have hints of an overall agenda on his part.

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                            • #59
                              I'm not sure of his overall goals, but we'll see one or two things in the Era that keep him busy

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