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  • Azar/Osiris

    Azar...Osiris. Basically the same deity, even if two totally separate entities.

    In Mummy: The Curse, Azar and Aset were ritually murdered that Azar might become King of Duat. In Promethean: The Created, Osiris was murdered and gifted with the Divine Fire by Isis.

    Is it possible to reconcile the two myths? Or are they separate beings, Osiris merely being a pale shadow of Azar?

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    Thousand answers, all quite possible, all missing some important elements.

    It's worth noting, Azar pretty much actually happened. The stories the Osirans know is, well, a story. Who really knows?


    Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
    Working on:Night Horrors: Enemy Action
    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey

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    • #3
      One easy way to spin, if you want the Osiris/Isis myth to be both true and linked to the Azar/Aset events, is to have Isis be a sorcerer inspired by the fables of Irem or in some other way drawing on the arcane knowledge of the Shan'iatu.

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      • #4
        We never did find out what happened to the Pharaoh, did we?


        Sean K.I.W. Steele, Onyx Path Freelancer
        Working on:Night Horrors: Enemy Action
        The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey

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        • #5
          Didn't the Pharaoh of Irem get ritually sacrificed by the Restless Stars after a certain number of years as a stand-in for Azar? If my anthropology instincts and my knack for ritual symbolism counts for anything, I'd bet that the Pharaohs had reigns that were measured in some multiple of seven. Maybe a flat reign of forty-two years (if they lived that long)

          I was always of the opinion that the Nepri came later, after the Osiris myth became distinct from the history of Azar- so after the First Sothic Turn.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Demigod Beast View Post
            Azar...Osiris. Basically the same deity, even if two totally separate entities.

            In Mummy: The Curse, Azar and Aset were ritually murdered that Azar might become King of Duat. In Promethean: The Created, Osiris was murdered and gifted with the Divine Fire by Isis.

            Is it possible to reconcile the two myths? Or are they separate beings, Osiris merely being a pale shadow of Azar?

            Thoughts?

            At my own table, the "Osiris" Lineage was born in the Old Kingdom Egypt specifically out of a failed attempt to replicate the Rite of Return. So the Osiris myth's birth underlay their emergence, but they did not inspire it. The first of their kind was actually named Nepri, but may have claimed to be Azar incarnate at times (especially after visiting the Underworld and returning through Revivication) much in the same way Pharaohs claimed to be incarnate Heru in life and Azar in death.

            (note: "Azar" is the Egyptians name of the god in question, not just the Irem name. "Osiris" is just the Greek that came into use during the Hellenistic period, and has stuck around in common usage)
            Last edited by glamourweaver; 08-10-2016, 11:06 PM.


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            • #7
              The Mediterranean was something of a theological melting-pot. You had a Pharaoh who tried to replace Egyptian polytheism with monotheistic sun-worship (possibly inspired by early Judaism, who knows?), Greeks giving Egyptian gods new names and occasionally throwing Greek and Egyptian gods in a blender, Greeks and Romans trying to equate any god they encountered with one of their own gods or folding them into their own pantheons, Celtic and Germanic pantheons on the borders of the Empire, Judaism going from the Temple Period to the Rabbinic Period, Christianity developing despite persecution (or not, depending on which interpretation of history you subscribe to)... all in all, a fascinating jumble of religion and politics one could spend lifetimes trying to dissect and reassemble.

              And I assume Heru was the name the Egyptians used for the god Westerners know as Horus?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
                At my own table, the "Osiris" Lineage was born in the Old Kingdom Egypt specifically out of a failed attempt to replicate the Rite of Return. So the Osiris myth's birth underlay their emergence, but they did not inspire it. The first of their kind was actually named Nepri, but may have claimed to be Azar incarnate at times (especially after visiting the Underworld and returning through Revivication) much in the same way Pharaohs claimed to be incarnate Heru in life and Azar in death.

                (note: "Azar" is the Egyptians name of the god in question, not just the Irem name. "Osiris" is just the Greek that came into use during the Hellenistic period, and has stuck around in common usage)
                I'm definitely going with that approach, more or less, for Age of Azar. Not to mention the Osiris Lineage would have sprung up at some point after the events of Cannibal Hymn.


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                Age of Azar
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Haberdasher View Post
                  The Mediterranean was something of a theological melting-pot. You had a Pharaoh who tried to replace Egyptian polytheism with monotheistic sun-worship (possibly inspired by early Judaism, who knows?), Greeks giving Egyptian gods new names and occasionally throwing Greek and Egyptian gods in a blender, Greeks and Romans trying to equate any god they encountered with one of their own gods or folding them into their own pantheons, Celtic and Germanic pantheons on the borders of the Empire, Judaism going from the Temple Period to the Rabbinic Period, Christianity developing despite persecution (or not, depending on which interpretation of history you subscribe to)... all in all, a fascinating jumble of religion and politics one could spend lifetimes trying to dissect and reassemble.

                  And I assume Heru was the name the Egyptians used for the god Westerners know as Horus?
                  Yep. That's right.


                  "My Homebrew Hub"
                  Age of Azar
                  The Kingdom of Yamatai

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                  • #10
                    Osiris was the Greek transliteration of Azar, from what I remember. And as an extra piece of trivia, he and another god (Apis, I think) were merged together into a new god named Serapis during the Ptolemaic period.
                    Last edited by Deionscribe; 08-11-2016, 01:15 AM.


                    "My Homebrew Hub"
                    Age of Azar
                    The Kingdom of Yamatai

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                    • #11
                      [DUPLICATED POST]
                      Last edited by Deionscribe; 08-11-2016, 01:16 AM.


                      "My Homebrew Hub"
                      Age of Azar
                      The Kingdom of Yamatai

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                      • #12
                        It's worth noting that Pyros and Sekhem are both largely invisible supernatural energies mixed up in the strange cosmic flow of Fate. What that means for Azar/Osiris as both the chief Iremite god and a possible Lineage demiurge is up to you.


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                        • #13
                          Thanks, guys! Yeah, I'm of a similar mind: that Azar is the 'true Osiris' and Aset the 'true Isis'; the demiurge Isis and the Promethean Osiris were an attempt to mimic the magics of the Shan'iatu that, well, failed horribly.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Haberdasher View Post
                            The Mediterranean was something of a theological melting-pot. You had a Pharaoh who tried to replace Egyptian polytheism with monotheistic sun-worship (possibly inspired by early Judaism, who knows?),
                            Definitely not. Historically Atenism took place a solid century before Israel in any form existed and was many, many centuries ahead of before the people of the book turned from ploytheism to monotheism. You could make a better case that Atenism was somehow influenced by a proto-Zorastrianism religion, but even that was several centuries later.

                            Sorry for being a know it all. The life and times of Akhenaten and King Tut are kind of an obsession for me.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by nothri View Post

                              Definitely not. Historically Atenism took place a solid century before Israel in any form existed and was many, many centuries ahead of before the people of the book turned from ploytheism to monotheism. You could make a better case that Atenism was somehow influenced by a proto-Zorastrianism religion, but even that was several centuries later.

                              Sorry for being a know it all. The life and times of Akhenaten and King Tut are kind of an obsession for me.
                              No no, very informational. I haven't made much study into the historical, objective roots of Judaism and monotheism in general. I just knew Akhenaten instituted a monotheistic religion, and there was a pretty famous monotheistic religion on his doorstep (geographically speaking), so I always thought there might be some connection.

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