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Is it just me, or is the New Dawn pretty easy to achieve?

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  • #16
    Did I have access to Milestones and metagame them? ...kinda? I mean, the exact same part of the book that has the roles you embody has the milestones to complete them. I know these are just the most common, and there are more possibilities out there but it was a pretty good bet that some of them would be the ones from the book, and the others would be similar. So some of them I had no idea were coming, but others I had a pretty good idea about, simply by reading the parts of the book that I needed to play the game. So...kinda, yeah.

    I too got the impression that you're expected to take awhile inhabiting the role, and when I play as a Promethean in the future I'm planning on working with my storyteller beforehand to try to make that happen. Still, it seems like if you bumble into your Milestone early you'd want to move on. Especially since committing to a Role can cease disquiet but cause an automatic tainted wasteland anytime you act against the Role, which includes using your powers.

    Well, we're not really at the endgame as a whole, no. The beast isn't incarnate yet, although I'm sure that's what he's shooting for, and I have very little doubt he'll get there. The Sin-Eater's got a lot of the manifestations and keys, but his endgame is more about saving his granddaughter from a True Fae than any Geisty stuff, and we're all pitching in to help so while it's going to be very very difficult hopefully we'll manage it. We'd normally hit endgame around the same time, but we were all surprised when I hit New Dawn so quickly. As for my newly minted human, I continued to be useful with a large array of fighting styles, but my exposure to the supernatural pretty quickly drove me to integrity 0. And last session it ended with a cliffhanger that makes me think I'm about to get Vamped, so more endgame stuff is theoretically on the way.

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    • #17
      A couple of thoughts:

      First, you don't automatically get to use the Milestones listed in the book. Those are examples of the sort of thing that might count as a Milestone. Whether or not it does count as a Milestone depends entirely on the Storyteller: he's supposed to come up with one Milestone for each Role you take on, and you have to figure out what that Milestone is. In fact, the game kinda sorta assumes that the samples Milestones found in the book generally won't work, because the Storyteller will have come up with another that's tailored to your particular Promethean's story.

      As for the loss of Integrity: which New Dawn option did you take? Because if you took the one where you remember the supernatural, your quick drop to Integrity 0, while technically according to the rules, violates their spirit. I'd recommend a house rule where the Redeemed who chose to retain their memories operate more along the lines of the Hunter 2e Code that was previewed recently: in particular, “witnessing the supernatural” becomes “witnessing a particular supernatural phenomenon for the first time”. That should greatly cut back on the number of Breaking Points you experience.


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      • #18
        A couple of responses:

        First, you're absolutely right. Because of the rushed beginning to the game, we more heavily relied on the examples than we normally would. Not all of the Milestones were directly from the book, but enough were that it certainly was a factor in the speed increase of the game. That being said, you only technically need 8 roles completed to achieve New Dawn, and while I'm not 100% sure that I got that many without the specific book examples, I probably did, and it would have been close at the very least.

        The loss of Integrity came mostly from supernatural phenomenon, yes, but actually, didn't really violate the spirit. My first choice was to forget, but then as soon as my I saw my Beast friend's Horror (I was in his Lair at the time) I hit my first breaking point. So I chose my one time only do-over, and remembered everything. My storyteller never made me roll for Supernatural occurrences that I'd already seen (whether it was because he forgot the actual rule, or he chose to house rule it right then right there, I'll probably never know) but either way I ran into a vampire (who was actually a Demon undercover), an alchemical creation, a couple new fae-ish things, and some hunters lobbing powers I'd never seen. And then I was crazy.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Akaru View Post
          A couple of responses:

          First, you're absolutely right. Because of the rushed beginning to the game, we more heavily relied on the examples than we normally would. Not all of the Milestones were directly from the book, but enough were that it certainly was a factor in the speed increase of the game. That being said, you only technically need 8 roles completed to achieve New Dawn, and while I'm not 100% sure that I got that many without the specific book examples, I probably did, and it would have been close at the very least.

          The loss of Integrity came mostly from supernatural phenomenon, yes, but actually, didn't really violate the spirit. My first choice was to forget, but then as soon as my I saw my Beast friend's Horror (I was in his Lair at the time) I hit my first breaking point. So I chose my one time only do-over, and remembered everything. My storyteller never made me roll for Supernatural occurrences that I'd already seen (whether it was because he forgot the actual rule, or he chose to house rule it right then right there, I'll probably never know) but either way I ran into a vampire (who was actually a Demon undercover), an alchemical creation, a couple new fae-ish things, and some hunters lobbing powers I'd never seen. And then I was crazy.
          Next time, just take the Scarred merit.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Akaru View Post
            A couple of responses:

            First, you're absolutely right. Because of the rushed beginning to the game, we more heavily relied on the examples than we normally would. Not all of the Milestones were directly from the book, but enough were that it certainly was a factor in the speed increase of the game. That being said, you only technically need 8 roles completed to achieve New Dawn, and while I'm not 100% sure that I got that many without the specific book examples, I probably did, and it would have been close at the very least.
            Well, regarding the roles: Your ST has to come up with which ones are integral to your road - and not necessarily tell you all of them. So you will fumble around a bit, thinking you are progressing, and in a way you are, but not really - kind of like growing up, I guess. So yeah, it would most certainly take far longer.
            But if this was in the spirit of your game, you had fun, then all is well. If I read everything correctly, this increased your interest in a more traditional Promethean game, if anything, so yeah, that's cool!

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            • #21
              Yeah, I mean, I didn't have direct access to all of them or anything, but it does seem like any real amount of player knowledge is a bigger push for Promethean than a lot of other games. And yes. Definitely more interested in the traditional game. And the game itself. It's good stuff!

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              • #22
                It sounds like your Storyteller missed something core to the spirit of Promethean; the Pilgrimage is supposed to be exactly that, a long and winding journey that tests you again and again, not something that can be knocked out over the course of a few sessions. I'm glad you had fun, but this is radically off-base from the intended experience of the game.


                Call me Remi. Female pronouns for me, please.

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                • #23
                  For regular mortals, integrity can't actually hit zero. By RAW once you're at 1 you just stay there.

                  Hunters can, according to the previews, but that seems to be a side-effect of the code.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                    For regular mortals, integrity can't actually hit zero. By RAW once you're at 1 you just stay there.

                    Hunters can, according to the previews, but that seems to be a side-effect of the code.
                    Wait, seriously?


                    A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Master Aquatosic View Post

                      Wait, seriously?
                      True. Its in the core book rules. Mortals cap at Integrity 1.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by MCN View Post
                        True. Its in the core book rules. Mortals cap at Integrity 1.
                        Huh. The indomitable human spirit, I guess


                        A god is just a monster you kneel to. - ArcaneArts, Quoting "Fall of Gods"

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                        • #27
                          I couldn't actually find it mentioned in the core, but it is mentioned in Mage. The writers have confirmed that it's supposed to be a general rule.

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                          • #28
                            Well, its more of a function that dropping down to zero serves no purpose. Integrity is a bulwark against losing your shit when confronted by crazy supernatural stuff. There's always a chance that, when you see something supernatural, it doesn't bother you - random chance of being through too much, etc. Having a chance die just means that you'll always fail, and that's not as exciting as having a chance and continuing to investigate things you shouldn't.

                            Of course, mortal games often serve as a jumping off point to become another game line (sometimes hunters, othertimes you Awaken or get Embraced, or go half-splat, or just a blood doll, etc). So completely breaking is also not quite useful either.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Akaru View Post
                              I don't have the book or character on me because my group keeps our rpg stuff in the same spot so we don't have to keep lugging them around, so I'll do my best to clarify without much reference material to backup my memory.

                              Let me start by saying that my game sessions last around 6 to 8 hours, so it's a decent amount of time.

                              I got into the complex Refinements with Athanors. Exceptional successes let you make a Mentor and Furnace at the same time, and with a Beast on the team, and the Inspired condition, exceptional successes aren't hard to get.

                              I did a lot of different Roles, and found most of them fairly easy to complete. I started out in Ferrum, and completed the Martyr Role by surviving my first serious fight (surviving stuff a human couldn't). I got the Exemplar Role by being acknowledged as a world class athlete (5 Dex, 5 Athletics, Parkour Merit) pretty easily. The other Role has a Milestone for beating a superior foe in single combat, and another for doing it with strategic positioning. That one was a bit harder, but not too bad. I don't remember a lot of the order I took through other Refinements, but quite a few were pretty simple. An Argentum Role has a Milestone that completes when you are prepared for a specific supernatural threat, and that same Refinement has a power that turns your aura into a specific bane for pretty much any critter you come across so that wasn't so bad. Savage has a Milestone for terrorizing a community, and I got into a fight with some hunters in a city. A couple of area effect lightning bolts and spending enough pyros to spark a firestorm covered that one. Phosphorum has the Daredevil Role which requires you to take self destructive non-fatal risks, I got that one by drinking a bunch of poisons on a bet with a Slasher. Obviously those are some of the easier examples, but a lot of them have a similar difficulty.

                              Didn't do a lot of Elpis stuff. I was an Extempore and so didn't have access to Azothic memory. I did have an Azothic object, which one paragraph implies ties you to Azothic memory, but since that didn't lend itself to rules text it was largely ignored. I was in a group with some magical information gathering powers though, so that was pretty helpful. Although, since you can induce your own Elpis visions, and there's a Sensorium power to interpret all sybolism maybe it wasn't so different.

                              So yeah, it really felt rushed. I was actually having a really hard time keeping track of all the new alembics being added to my character as the Roles flew by. My character sheet looks like one giant eraser burn. Fun though.

                              So...if I'm reading you right, it sounds like you read the book, learned (out of character) what the example milestones for Roles were, and then used that as a walkthrough in-game? Is that right?


                              .

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