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Secret Hurt Locker Room Covenant Talk

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  • Secret Hurt Locker Room Covenant Talk

    So, I have this Daeva Ordo character for a few years now (at 114 exp). He has Ascendancy and Zirnitra at 5 (and starting Ziva, now that it is complete and he is a Twilight Judge). I have a bunch of Supernatural Merits and when Hurt Locker came out I was very psyched (pun intended) to acquire even more at bargain prices. It was then that I found the seemingly innocuous Psychokinetic Resistance 1 dot merit and had an epiphany.

    I already have Pyrokinesis and Ascendancy (He is a very, very feared Sworn of the Axe and Sheriff of the domain), so Fire was but a nuissance already, but take the Merit mentioned above and its a complete non-issue. I then thought hell, why not take Photokinesis and have armor against light?! Is it a way to beat the Pain of Purity?

    Ascendancy reduces Blood Potency in regards to the Sun (through Blush of Life and blood expenditure)
    Ziva keeps your hold on Humanity (also, does the first dot include the "Great Banes" in it's effect? I, and the ST, assume it does, but would be good to hear from others.)
    Zirnitra allows for the supernatural merits purchase.

    With "X"kinesis and Psychokinetic Resistance you get Armor (in the amount of the main Merit) against the "X" energy damage. Pyrokinesis gives you armor against fire, and Photokinesis against light, would any of you, as STs, allow it to work against Sunlight? I haven't discussed this with the ST, but I think he will go for it, but I will probably only find out in character.

    I also loved the Psychic Vampire minor template. I'm also thinking of pursuing it. I love that it will be used to feed my psychic powers (through Willpower draining), but I am eagerly anticipating the psychological and metaphysical questions of becoming even more of a "black hole" (as in bleeding two forms of life energy now, instead of one, doubling the need for predatory feeding). What are you all's opinion of this? Would you allow students of Zirnitra's Coil to purchase one (and probably only one, as the book says you shouldn't mix minor templates) minor template?

    If you would, and specifically talking of Psychic Vampire, how interesting would you make the interaction of both hungers? Would you make Vitae and Ephemera exchangeable? Interact in some way? Not interact at all?

    Thanks in advance for insights and opinions, for or against any of the ideas presented above.

    *I foresee eschatology in the horizon, the Lance in the domain are about to go pretty mad!*
    Last edited by TGUEIROS; 01-08-2017, 07:36 PM. Reason: EDIT: Re-read Ziva 1, and it doesn't affect fire and sunlight, so can only rely on Ascendant or actual Humanity :)

  • #2
    I would never allow a vampire to gain influence or defense over their banes though anything outsidr of published vampire material that specifically called out that it does so (e.g. Resilience). On those grounds. I wouldnt allow pyrokinesis or phorokinesis at all, much less the armor.

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    • #3
      Same, really. Many/most Vampire powers specifically call out an inability to affect Banes. I wouldn't allow it at all.

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      • #4
        Any particular reason why?

        For a sufficiently developed Ascendant, fire is the same as for a mortal, with a little Resilience, it is even less harmful. So in a certain way certain Vampires are greater masters of fire than most mortals.

        Aren't Coils a path to transcend? If you make your way to such transcendence by overcoming your Banes, wouldn't achieving mastery over them be a logical next step?

        Would your answer to a player that has an idea similar to this be simply "no, because." Or would you elaborate? And what would your reasoning be?

        *I convinced our ST to allow me to have Pyrokinesis because I already had Peace with the Flame at the time, so that was my argument. Since I have Sun's Forgotten Kiss, I'm planning to use the same reasoning, but he may back down once I take Psychic Resistance for both types of energy, or not even allow Photokinesis, since it is a more esoteric and not so iconic "kinesis". Or say it only affects lasers or some shit like that, lol. Who knows, I'll find out soon enough.*




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        • #5
          Originally posted by Maina View Post
          Same, really. Many/most Vampire powers specifically call out an inability to affect Banes. I wouldn't allow it at all.
          Ah! Also, it is not a "Vampire Power". It is a Mortal Power, that the character can access as a Vampire, due to overcoming their psychically sterile nature through another Coil!

          Gonna file this argument for later, hehe.

          *P.S. this thread also functions for me to sharpen my arguments for the talk with the ST.*

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          • #6
            Banes traditionally cut through such armor. I'd let a vampire be a pyrokinetic, even a laser vampire, but I wouldn't let the armor protect them.

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            • #7
              Thematically, Banes are meant to be a Big Deal. They are a huge part of the reason that the Requiem is a Requiem and not a superhero story. How does allowing armor against fire and sunlight play into the themes of Requiem as a whole, and into your ST's story?

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              • #8
                Just building on Banes as a Big Deal, Fire can be conquered with a large investment into both a Coil AND a Discipline together, while Sunlight can be lessened by a 5 dot Coil but not entirely tamed.
                I would let you take Photokinesis no problem, with the caveat that you still have zero control over Sunlight. Pyrokinesis I would consider allowing only if you had Ascendant 4 and Resilience 5.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by SoulGambit View Post
                  Thematically, Banes are meant to be a Big Deal. They are a huge part of the reason that the Requiem is a Requiem and not a superhero story. How does allowing armor against fire and sunlight play into the themes of Requiem as a whole, and into your ST's story?
                  How does having an unbeatable weakness factor into Requiem not being a superhero story? What is kryptonite? Is The Adventures of Superman not a superhero story because of it then? In today's context of superhero stories, what is your definition of it? And why is it good that Requiem does not play into it?

                  And while a "standard" Requiem game may not play as a "superhero story" it is certainly a setting and system full of "superpowers", and exploring those is certainly in theme for the game.

                  We have a Covenant, and by consequence a good percentage of vampires, who believe and strive to make it so that the Curse is actually a Blessing, overcoming it's weaknesses and maintaining its superhuman capabilities. To become something more. That is what my character believes and strives to achieve. It is certainly in theme with that Corebook pitch.

                  This is still a Big DealĀ®, in character cost and will certainly be a big deal for the story, which doesn't belong to the ST by the way, but to all players.

                  The story started in the mid 1800s and it is now the present day, and all the characters are powerhouses. The amount of character development (exp) that I will end up having invested in this is enormous. With it I could take any other facet of Vampire existence and master it, like other players went for. So why shouldn't I be able to reach for that?

                  Originally posted by Rathamus View Post
                  Just building on Banes as a Big Deal, Fire can be conquered with a large investment into both a Coil AND a Discipline together, while Sunlight can be lessened by a 5 dot Coil but not entirely tamed.
                  I would let you take Photokinesis no problem, with the caveat that you still have zero control over Sunlight. Pyrokinesis I would consider allowing only if you had Ascendant 4 and Resilience 5.
                  For Pyrokinesis I had Resilience 3, which is enough to downgrade the highest per turn damage the Corebook offers to bashing.

                  I'm thinking of suggesting that at Resilience 5, Ascendant 5, Photokinesis * and Psychic Resistance I could downgrade Sunlight to lethal and after reaching Ziva five and experiencing Shedding, maybe allow for the Armor to work... Who knows, that would be almost a year in the future if I dedicate the character to that.

                  Ascendant 5 = 10xp
                  Zirnitra 5 = 15xp
                  Ziva 5 = 15xp
                  Resilience 5 = 20xp
                  Pyrokinesis 5 = 4xp
                  Photokinesis 5 = 4xp
                  Psychic Resitance on both = 2xp

                  So a whopping 70xp to "beat" the Great Banes. That is discounting all the side organic growth in merits, skills and attributes. I invested a raw 40 (out of 114) into the fire schtick already (disregarding the other Ordo merits exp investment), so at this rate I only see it happening when I'm at around 200 or so, which would take another year and a half or so.

                  Is this that far fetched for a character that by the time will have around five years of regular play?

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                  • #10
                    Just gonna say, I like your idea. It makes sense that the Coil of the Ascendant would be required. If I was the ST I'd be totally down with the pyrokinetic stuff. However I wouldn't allow the photokinetic stuff to work on sunlight because it is the greatest of the vampire banes. But on the other hand I'm not your ST, and you've come a long way, so all the power to ya.

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                    • #11
                      As ST I would probably have your vampire able to control all but natural sunlight.

                      That in itself would become a story hook as to why it is so unique, and not as malleable as fire was for you.

                      Maybe allow you to come to some degree of sunlight protection after some big spiritual epiphany.

                      That being the big thing here. The Ordo trade the drama of the Banes for the story fodder that is transcending the self. I don't see a lot of talk about your character's paradigm or anything, just spending XP and checking off prerequisite boxes for power.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TGUEIROS View Post
                        Any particular reason why?
                        For me, its mostly because I really play up the weaknesses. Cruac spell got you down? Expose it to sunlight or flame. Shrivel right up. Things like that. Its mostly a matter of taste, however. The devs and writers have mentioned that they wouldnt' recommend it either, but I'm going to say its not a hard rule. What kind of game does your ST want to allow? Buying up any psychic merit is not a given, it always up to the ST to approve.

                        How does having an unbeatable weakness factor into Requiem not being a superhero story?
                        "Superhero" tends to be used as a dirty insult of "something you're not supposed to do." It has mostly superficial meaning, implying a lack of horror and pulpy, action-oriented gaming with gonzo twinked out characters. Nevermind that modern superhero stories have plenty of personal horror and consequences.

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                        • #13
                          You make an interesting case for how vampire can be similar to a superhero story, but you didnt answer how letting you have something I wouldnt normally allow plays into the themes of requiem as a whole and your ST's game in particular.

                          After all, part of the Ordo Dracule's thing is that they havent succeeded yet. If you get this, that means that aspect of the great work is done. Finished. Ordo Dracule becomes full of daywalkers.

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                          • #14
                            Another possibility is to do it like Dracula actually acts in Stoker's book. You can go out in the sunlight, you don't burst into flames. But you're discomforted by it, and cut off from your supernatural powers and vulnerable. So maybe it takes a great deal of concentration to resist the sun, and you can't spend blood for any reason while exposed to it.

                            The second possibility being the logical conclusion of photokinesis. You're not being hit by the sun rays because you're bending them around you without letting them touch you.

                            Of course you are now completely blind because no light is reaching your eyes unless you have some other method for visualization, and you look like a weird spatial anomaly so it isn't exactly subtle.

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                            • #15
                              Another thing to consider is that the vampires weakness to the sun is not necessarily something scientific and logical.
                              By that i mean its may not just be the light of the sun that is harmful to the kindred. The sun itself (just its presence in the sky above) may be enough to hurt the kindred.
                              I may be a bit of a jerk st for that but i would allow you the whole control light thing only to find out it doesnt do anything to mitigate the damage from the sun :P

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