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Stacking Question on Martial Arts and Protean

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  • Stacking Question on Martial Arts and Protean

    Martial Arts 5 turns your unarmed attacks into 2L weapons(basically). Protean 4 says it adds +2 lethal weapon modifier to all brawl attacks". Do those two things stack, or are they redundant?

  • #2
    I'm inclined to say it's redundant personally but since other merit bonuses get to stack to obscene levels with other discipline uses, go with whatever you think works in your setting.

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    • #3
      Stop by http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...natural-splats and ask, more people are going to be monitoring it but as it's cross splat you're spark a debate in which splats can and can't do what so read carefully.
      Protean 4 is the only one of them that does Lethal to vampires though.
      Last edited by Live Bait; 01-29-2017, 08:09 PM.

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      • #4
        If you go by the words in Hurt Locker, you can't even stack claws and any Martial Arts level. The latter is a "Striking" style, and specifically cannot apply to claws, same as the Boxing and Unarmed Defense Fighting Styles.

        If you ignore Hurt Locker, then, no, Martial Arts 4 and 5 still do nothing if you have Protean Claws. The Lethal part is redundant, and M.A. says "count as weapons with two damage rating." You would just have two "2L weapons" that your hands replace.

        Of course, all this changes if your ST says that you can mix them.

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        • #5
          I wouldn't allow it either for the simple fact that you can't use your claws while you're punching and you can't use your fists while you're clawing. They're two fundamentally different methods for striking an opponent, like how you can't punch while swinging a sword in the same hand.

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          • #6
            Depending on the style of Martial Arts you learned it may not require you to make a fist.

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            • #7
              Well, I always perceived that the main point of protean 4 claws isn't that it does lethal, but that it does lethal to vampires. You need to do lethal to humans, you can get the same effect by carrying an obfuscated sword (and of course, if you have kindred dueling, you know whatever). Plus, protean claws can be upgraded to do aggravated in frenzy (and then just buy the first level of coil of the beast and the frenzy fighting style for added lulz), including to vampires.

              Martial arts won't allow you to do lethal to vampires (unless for levels that do aggravated). Also, claws are clearly unnatural, and so a masquerade violation, so while the two have some overlap, they can actually have quite different applications.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Live Bait View Post
                Depending on the style of Martial Arts you learned it may not require you to make a fist.
                Yes but if you're doing two lethal by elbow striking or flying sidekicking your opponents, you're NOT clawing them therefore the benefit from Protean created claws isn't applicable.

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                • #9
                  Its always been a thing in the nWoD that claws are incompatable with human Fighting Styles. Its clear that standard holds true for the CofD as well, but with a slightly less restrictions. Only the three (four if you count the alternate Martial Arts techniques) "Striking" styles are incompatable now, instead of huge swaths of techniques.

                  The "claws can work with human techniques" arguement is pretty old by this point; if you want to allow it at your table, go ahead. Its going to be a house rule, however, since official rules disallow it.

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                  • #10
                    The way I see open hand fighting styles inflicting lethal involve not using the open hand in the strike but instead using the open hand to grab and twist something the wrong way, throw.the target into something hard, or not striking with the hand in a way that would be palm/fingers/claws facing the target. I'd definitely allow a brawl specialty in "claws" to apply if the attack described using them to help grip for a throw or twisting grab. (oops... sorry broke your arm, actually not sorry at all) But that's about it for overlap.
                    Last edited by Pale_Crusader; 01-30-2017, 01:59 PM.


                    “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” ~ Aristophanes
                    "Virescit Vulnere Virtus" ~ Stewart Clan Motto

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                    • #11
                      It's situational, which is why I suggested using whatever works best at the individual table. Every martial arts specialist I know all say actual weapons will do more damage but when thats not viable the most damage is done by slamming a closed fist or knee into someone's face or chest. Having claws is not going to help you perform a joint lock (which exploits areas of the body with lower pain threshholds more than doing raw damage) or throw someone off you who's on top of you. Knowing the proper stance and where you should establish a grip long enough to fling someone across your hip or over your back will. Claws may actually end up being a hinderance by getting snagged in clothes and breaking or accidentally scratching yourself during a brawl.

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