Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Lightning vs. Vampires

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Lightning vs. Vampires

    I'm running an Ordo vampire with the Coil of Zinitra, and I have Psychokinisis 5 for electricity. My GM has questioned the validity of my lightning doing lethal to vampires. I think it does, it's a supernatural ability(merit), normal electricity does bashing on it's own, but Psychokinisis specifically does lethal. It's far from mundane and I'm generating the lightning rather than pulling it from a mundane source. Anyone have any thoughts on the matter one way or the other?

  • #2
    I'd allow it to do lethal, but I can see the argument for bashing. It's a supernatural ability but it does damage by creating lightning, which isn't supernatural per se. Much like a weapon summoned by magic wouldn't do lethal to a vampire because the weapon itself isn't magical. But I would say it does lethal anyway for two reasons. First of all, electricity normally does bashing damage so it's clear there's something special about this lightning. And second of all, you paid experiences (or at least character creation dots) for the ability, so I would err towards allowing it to work as written whenever reasonable so as to not devalue that investment.


    Onyx Path Forum Moderator

    My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

    Comment


    • #3
      The way that electricity is manipulated (and conjured up with the five dot version) is definitely far from mundane, but the electricity itself should probably not be considered magical. The reason electricity does lethal from Psychokinesis is only because Psychokinesis is written to be a generic template Merit for different abilities.


      Bloodline: The Stygians

      Comment


      • #4
        First and foremost the Storyteller is always correct in his Chronicle, so everything I say is IMHO and should not be used to try and override the Storyteller. I would have it do Lethal as it is more magical the mundane. But then I am New to the Chronicles of Darkness so take what I say with a grain of salt.

        Comment


        • #5
          Generally, damage is downgraded unless it specifically says otherwise. According to the book, even some supernatural attacks that do Aggravated are downgraded.

          Kindred take only bashing damage from many sources that
          would normally cause lethal damage to humans. This includes
          most non-supernatural weapons.

          Those few terrible things that cause aggravated wounds
          to mortals cause only lethal harm to vampires. This mostly
          includes terrible harm from chemicals, certain supernatural
          punishment
          , and the skills of utmost masters in certain fighting
          styles meant to maximize debilitating bodily harm.
          Page 90, emphasis mine. "Includes" in this case suggesting that it isn't an exhaustive list regarding Lethal damage. Essentially, the same lack of working internal organs that downgrades other damage would have me downgrading electric damage, too. Supernatural or not, it's still electricity, and Supernatural damage as a whole doesn't get the blanket ability to bypass Vampiric damage reduction.

          Comment


          • #6
            Basically, unless it's a bane or is otherwise designed to not be downgraded by vampires (such as the Protean 4 claws) it should be downgraded.


            Bloodline: The Stygians

            Comment


            • #7
              Going to go with the general flow here - it's not supernatural lightning, just supernaturally manipulated/created lightning. It should do Bashing.

              Comment


              • #8
                In as much as intent matters, here'a what David has said about it.

                Originally posted by MachineIV View Post
                At the time I wrote that particular remark, I only knew of one GMC compliant supernatural power that did aggravated damage (a Demon power), and felt it should be downgraded.

                Since at the time, we were really only thinking of Vampire for the most part, it does require a little more consideration if you want to look at crossover games and such.

                My personal rules of thumb are basically:

                If it'd do aggravated to a human, it does lethal to a vampire.
                If it'd do lethal to a human, it does bashing to a vampire.
                If it's a direct damage power in a Vampire book, it does the damage suggested since we're referencing vampires primarily in that book.
                If the power makes a mundane weapon or cause of harm, downgrade it. Protean 2 is a good example.
                If the power makes a weapon, and we say it does X to vampires, it does X to vampires. Protean 4 is a good example.
                If someone in my games paid Experience for something to hurt vampires, it should hurt them. A Fighting Style that does aggravated should probably do aggravated, because of the investment involved.
                So yeah. Like I said, I'd allow it to do lethal to honor the experience investment in the power, and because it's already doing different damage than electricity normally does, which clearly indicates that it is supernaturally empowered in some way.
                Last edited by Charlaquin; 02-03-2017, 11:08 AM.


                Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                Comment


                • #9
                  And that is where I was coming from that it is more magic the Mundane.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Vampires are not inherently more vulnerable to magic than to mundane sources of injury, because magic isn't just one thing, or even a large set of loosely-related things.

                    That said, between the experience investment in the power and the fact that one of the dangers of lightning is getting burned, I'd let it do lethal.
                    Last edited by Rose Bailey; 02-03-2017, 04:36 PM.


                    Rose Bailey
                    Onyx Path Development Producer
                    Cavaliers of Mars Creator | Chronicles of Darkness Lead Developer

                    Retired as forum administrator. Please direct inquiries to the Contact Us link.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rose Bailey View Post
                      Vampires are not inherently more vulnerable to magic than mundane sources of injury, because magic isn't just one thing, or even a large set of loosely-related things.

                      That said, between the experience investment in the power and the fact that one of the dangers of lightning is getting burned, I'd let it do lethal.
                      I'd let it do lethal, for the reasons Rose quoted. Also because a) lightning is much more powerful and more damaging to non-living objects than other sources of electrical damage b) scientifically speaking, a sizable part of the damage lightning causes is high-intensity burning c) mystically speaking, lightning is close to fire in elemental affinities. In sum, lightning is too powerful and close to fire to do bashing damage to vampires.
                      Last edited by Irioth; 02-03-2017, 06:26 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd go with bashing as otherwise I would feel that any Spirt with the Blast Numina should do lethal too but you do have a quote from the woman who made the book that says lethal. Show your ST the post (and this whole thread) and accept his judgment.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We have reached an Agreement, thank you all for the well reasoned responses and your interest.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Irioth View Post
                            scientifically speaking, a sizable part of the damage lightning causes is high-intensity burning c) mystically speaking, lightning is close to fire in elemental affinities.
                            Try telling that to a Promethean though


                            Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                            My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rose Bailey View Post
                              Vampires are not inherently more vulnerable to magic than to mundane sources of injury, because magic isn't just one thing, or even a large set of loosely-related things.

                              That said, between the experience investment in the power and the fact that one of the dangers of lightning is getting burned, I'd let it do lethal.
                              Oooh, I just noticed your a devloper!! Senpai Noticed me!!!!!!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X