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[Dark Eras] Lancea et Sanctum and Church

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  • [Dark Eras] Lancea et Sanctum and Church

    I slowly prepare Werewolf chronicle about Vikings raids on Christian monasteries. Dark Eras chapter Wolf and Raven mentions small vampires groups in those cloisters. I suppose most would be Lance Sanctum Kindred, but there rose question - How vampires can live in monastery, with it's life so depending on day schedule? Masses and day work are made... well, in daylight, rather than at night. I think that brothers would quickly found out that 2 or 3 of them are missing every activity in monastery. Am I missing something?


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  • #2
    How much does your average monks travel? I mean, if your local monastery has monks who only appear at night and that's the only monastery you know, who are you to tell them they're wrong, especially when the ghoul abbot tells you it's fine.


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    • #3
      Originally posted by Michael View Post
      How much does your average monks travel?
      Let's assume even that practicaly none, with maybe guest monks once or twice a year, but...

      Originally posted by Michael View Post
      I mean, if your local monastery has monks who only appear at night and that's the only monastery you know, who are you to tell them they're wrong, especially when the ghoul abbot tells you it's fine.
      We have few dozens of brothers in monastery. Two or three are always missing during the day, showing only on supper - and still not really eating. I undestand that 'Brother Abbot approves' can be solution to some groups, but sooner or later other brothers will notice.

      And solution of 'Brother Thomas is constantly weak on body' seems not working in the long run. Especially as brothers become suddenly lethargic... ( Because one of vampires is more hungry than needing. )

      And Blood Bonding everyone in monastery seems to much to look after - AND Vitea ineffective. You would need to spend 1 Vitea each day for each brother. If monastery would have like 30-50 brothers, it would mean drinking up dry at least 4-5 of them each day to sustain Masquerade!

      Maybe Lance Sanctum has some Theban Magic to better pass their priests as flock they should walk inside?


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      • #4
        Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
        I undestand that 'Brother Abbot approves' can be solution to some groups, but sooner or later other brothers will notice.
        It's less about people noticing, it's more people doing anything about it. I mean, the Abbot isn't an elected leader. There's that one monk who you never see during the day and the Abbot gives him special dispensation to not not be around during the day. It isn't the average monks place to question that.

        The alternative is prehaps a more active cultivation of a cult or herd structure. That doesn't have to mean changing the religion or the function, but actively pulling monks into complicity with the vampire.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
          And Blood Bonding everyone in monastery seems to much to look after - AND Vitea ineffective. You would need to spend 1 Vitea each day for each brother. If monastery would have like 30-50 brothers, it would mean drinking up dry at least 4-5 of them each day to sustain Masquerade!
          One drop works for a year.

          But if they are interested in keeping their identity secret, they would only bond the head of the monastery and a couple others. If for some reason they decided to announce their presence and pretend to be a real priest, they would use powers to support a lie about some sort of disease or something that requires them to keep private.

          It's also entirely within the realms of possibility that such a vampire would have fledgling vampires with them, splitting up the burden of spending Vitae as they teach their coterie. Even Thascius Hostilinus had his three, at least, childer.

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          • #6
            Why does the vampire have to be masquerading as a monk? Laity also live in the monastery, lay brothers work the bellows and the farms and clean and keep the candles burning. Why not have the vampire masquerade as one of them instead? Alternatively, give them Obfuscation and they haunt the monastery.

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            • #7
              You could have the vampire just Obfuscate their way around, passing unseen or unnoticed through the halls. Another fun option could be to have them be the head of the monastery and cultivate all of them as their herd.

              There's also always messing with someone's memories with Dominate.


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              • #8
                As someone who plays Meket by preference my thought process tends to assume access to Obfuscate. Most clans have a discipline that can help them hide or make friends (and get donations) so only Gangrel have no easy answer but they don't need a roof over their head.

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                • #9
                  Abbots were usually elected by the other monks. This was hundreds of years before the printing press so it was common work for monks to copy texts so that covers the work aspect for a vampire monk as long as they can manage to stay awake during the day, which is required for the prayers every 3 hours anyway. If they claimed leprosy, I don't think anyone is going to be asking them any questions during that time period. After adding the normal vampire tricks, it seems as easy as a vampire could get at a public lifestyle for the times.

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                  • #10
                    Do not Lancea Sanctum has tenents about leading their mortal flock on religious matters? If yes, then Obfuscate is not solution, as Sanctified need to talk with mortals, so they would be known to monastery community.

                    If Blood Bond can last one year on 1 Vitea only, it works much more plausible

                    Originally posted by Diggs View Post
                    Abbots were usually elected by the other monks.
                    And how this have anything to the topic?

                    Originally posted by Diggs View Post
                    This was hundreds of years before the printing press so it was common work for monks to copy texts so that covers the work aspect for a vampire monk as long as they can manage to stay awake during the day, which is required for the prayers every 3 hours anyway.
                    I do not see how coping text is working as good Masquared for vampires. Did it not be better to do this work in the daylight, with, well, light to read text? And do not other copying brothers ( like, I assume, half of monastyr ) would not see you missing your duties every day?

                    And you point to other needed condition - You need to show up every 3 hours for prayers - How this could work with day sleeping vampires?

                    Originally posted by Diggs View Post
                    If they claimed leprosy, I don't think anyone is going to be asking them any questions during that time period.
                    MAYBE it works for Nosferatu, but for other Clans? I heardly see Ventrue or Deava saying 'I'm sick and I will do my things in night' with their obsessions over contact and using Herd.

                    Originally posted by Diggs View Post
                    After adding the normal vampire tricks, it seems as easy as a vampire could get at a public lifestyle for the times.
                    Could you point me to this 'vampire tricks'? I have only passing knowledge of Requiem mechanics.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                      Do not Lancea Sanctum has tenents about leading their mortal flock on religious matters? If yes, then Obfuscate is not solution, as Sanctified need to talk with mortals, so they would be known to monastery community.
                      No, they have a strict rule about not worshiping alongside mortals. And they are strong supporters of the Masquerade and the Traditions in general.

                      Blood & Smoke, p41, 'The ambivalent relationship of the Sanctified to their living flocks is a case in point. While they have for centuries maintained a strict rule that they do not worship alongside the living, vampiric shepherds do everything they can to make sure these churches survive, pursuing those who would persecute or otherwise harm the living church with terrifying viciousness. On the other hand, the Sanctified believe that they must keep their flocks strong. With fear, a Sanctified monster keeps the wayward children of Mother Church on the straight and narrow: teenagers are terrified into maintaining their virginity by the monsters who hunt at Lovers’ Leap; an abusive priest is fed on, and then driven to suicide; a family is frightened into staying with the church by nightmares and supernatural portents. With temptations, the monsters weed out the weak: A vampire plays on the deep-seated doubts of a nun, driving her to experimentation and addiction, then to prostitution and finally to homelessness and death; a televangelist is given the opportunity to embezzle funds from the Rwandan Orphanage Appeal; a student Bible-group leader is lured to his doom by a beautiful, dark woman. All too often those whom the Sanctified tempt and are found wanting become the next generation of the Sanctified themselves, rising from the grave to atone for the unforgivable.'

                      In addition, while the covenant is a religious one, just like the church not every member is a priest. It has its scholars and scribes and other professions in its rank.
                      Last edited by nofather; 02-12-2017, 03:08 AM.

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                      • #12
                        So Lancea Sanctum vampires would not attend even night mortal masses in Medieval Church?


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                        • #13
                          They would to keep an eye on people or screw around with them. They wouldn't to perform their ceremonies, which would likely be perceived as some sort of blasphemy by your average church goer.

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                          • #14
                            Vampires who perform and/or pray along mortals are considered heretics by the central longinian creed. During the midnight masses, longinians are more likely going to prey upon the monks who miss services and sacraments, even if it took a little prompting from them to do so. Untested virtue is not virtue at all for the Lancea et Sanctum, and tempting the self-claimed pure is one of their most basic tradition.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                              And how this have anything to the topic?
                              Someone suggested using an abbot. Someone else that they were not elected. If you use an abbot, it is important to know that they need the support of most of the monks. It is a complication.

                              I do not see how coping text is working as good Masquared for vampires. Did it not be better to do this work in the daylight, with, well, light to read text? And do not other copying brothers ( like, I assume, half of monastyr ) would not see you missing your duties every day?
                              And you point to other needed condition - You need to show up every 3 hours for prayers - How this could work with day sleeping vampires?
                              MAYBE it works for Nosferatu, but for other Clans? I heardly see Ventrue or Deava saying 'I'm sick and I will do my things in night' with their obsessions over contact and using Herd.
                              Copying text would be an indoor activity often away from windows so avoiding sunlight is possible while doing it. Candle light instead of daylight could be used to see. Vampires can stay awake during the day with difficulty. This would be required to be a monk for the reasons you mention. Lepers were ostracized, that was my point. Nobody would notice minor issues like not eating. Work and prayer would not be minor. A Herd of lepers would be possible. Monks were known to treat the sick and run leper colonies or asylums.

                              It is possible but difficult, and I think it would not be fun to play. I think it would be better to have the vampires make some monks servants. Actually, the vampires could claim to be lepers and control a few monks to maintain the ruse. Everyone else would be too busy avoiding them and where they stay to care about what the vampires were doing in their home.

                              Could you point me to this 'vampire tricks'? I have only passing knowledge of Requiem mechanics.
                              Discipline, blood bond, etc. It is a figure of speech. Don't worry about it.
                              Last edited by Diggs; 02-12-2017, 04:51 AM.

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