Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What's the role of the Ordo Dracul

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • What's the role of the Ordo Dracul

    So, question time.

    I've been messing around with some Vampire settings of late, thinking of trying some new directions with the game than my usual things. Back with Blood and Smoke first came out, I remember talk about how each of the covenants had reasons to have rivals stick around. Each covenant kind of fitting into its own niche, having its own specialties.

    The Invictus specialize in keeping the Masquerade quiet through organization manipulations and raising the best Retainers (even if the PC is that retainer!). Notories who bond their cotories and ghouls can grant them some pretty powerful abilities.
    The Carthians have an entire "shrug off outside influence" vibe going on with them with their Law, and make everyone like them with lawyer speak. They are awesome at upholding the law, no matter what it is.
    The Lancea et Sanctum has the whole Lore Keeper vibe going on with their Libraries as well as a lot of witch hunter abilities and "sanctuary." Even Theban lends itself to the latter two. Very handy to have. Theban actually lends itself to making awesome sheriffs, in my not-actually-humble opinion.
    The Circle of the Crone has the best "witches" - especially for diviners and other mystical paths, like summoning, dealing with ghosts, etc.

    Each of these kind of fit well into a society, and gives reasons why you'd want to keep each of them around in your domain. Need the future foretold, go to an Acolyte. Have someoen that needs to be tracked down and judged? Lance, you're up. Carthians, for all their trouble causing, make excellent aids and will follow the Law, because that's their strength. Invictus make everyone around them better.

    Now, I'm sure that some people will agree or disagree with the above. Maybe you'll have different takes, maybe you'll have different wants. Its the general direction I'm taking my city in. But, here's the cornerstone of where I'm drawing a giant "???" over my head while looking at the covenants.

    What good is the Ordo Dracul? Seriously. Ignore Zirnitra / Ziva for now - they're both rare enough and varied enough that I don't want them to influence the covenant as a whole in my city. So, what do these Dragons do for the city at large? What social role do they fill? What niche do they claim beyond "be the best vampire you can be?" Asendant could be good for "daylight vampires," but that's literally what most other covenants use ghouls for. I'm at a loss on how the Ordo Dracul would really contribute to vampire society as a whole here, as I'm looking at for my game.


    Now, I know that the Ordo Dracul are technically supposed to be secret society. Never seen them run that way, but there you are. So not having a role in society might be a thing. But they don't really lend themselves to being a hidden society within Vampire ranks either. They just seem to be... there. Maybe just really good Elysium Keepers, given all the Wyrm Nest merits? I was kind of hoping for something pulled from the core book, but they're just short on ideas imho.


    So, does anyone have any other ideas?
    Last edited by MCN; 03-05-2017, 07:44 AM.

  • #2
    They are the Lore Keepers for supernatural stuff. They specifically go out to supernatural places and spend their time studying them to find out how it works, which they called Wyrm Nests iirc. If you're looking for a way to get into the underworld, ask the Ordo Dracul and they might tell how to open a nearby avernian gate for example.

    Comment


    • #3
      Wouldn't that be the Circle? They specialize in Occult, they have rituals that deal with ghosts, they have divinations that can point you in the direction of a doorway, they can probably have a ritual to open said dooorway....

      Heck, even the Circle's predasessor in Dark Era's London specialized in supernatural contacts before they got into Cruac.
      Last edited by MCN; 03-05-2017, 07:56 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        You would have to change how the Ordo Dracul operates if you want them to "beneficially" contribute to vampire society because as it is is now, they don't provide a public product or service. Their entire purpose is to alter the "physics" of vampiric existence to make themselves better than everyone else. Supposedly to overthrow God but more realistically to just become the top of the local heap. If they shared the fruits of their discoveries you could classify them as innovators but whenever they discover something they proceed to conceal it even from each other. Either that or you need to manufacture a threat where they would, based on their ability to temporarily pervert the functions of powers (via scales) need to concoct a pseudoscientic solution. If it's a disease or infection, it would have to be ongoing treatment and not a permanent cure. (Which explains why they're kept around.) Or maybe something bizarre like collecting vitae from every clan every 15 years meeting esoteric conditions to hand over to a Gentry so the Hedge doesn't weaken. Or a Hunger Games knockoff where a fledgling or neonate from each clan is offered every year to the local werewolves (who specialize in hunting vampires) as payment for losing a territory war to them. The Ordo Dracul thinks they've perfected a "vampire" capable of finally winning.

        Comment


        • #5
          Do scientists and scholars contribute anything immediate or tangible to the society? That's the usual social roll I see the Ordo occupy. How you treat them will vary depending on whether the domain's resources and infrastructure can support them, and how the Ordo conduct themselves.


          MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

          Comment


          • #6
            The Ordo Dracul don't contribute at all is the point. Scientists and scholars publish their findings. The Ordo Dracul hoards their discoveries.

            Not only that, the other covenants are just as capable of producing scientists and researchers who are just as good as or superior to the types drawn to the Ordo Dracul thanks to their fields of interest/excellence.
            Last edited by tsusasi; 03-05-2017, 11:20 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              I also see them as specialist of the weird. Not everything in the Chronicles of Darkness is easily put in categories such as ghost and spirits. Sometimes you encounter things that just cant be easily classified. The Ordo Dracul with their exploratory, researchy vibe, would be well suited to offer explanation to such things. (BTW i know its not perfect, i'm sort of 'thinking out loud' to try to help).

              Comment


              • #8
                The Dragons are absolutely the scientists and scholars of Kindred society. They may keep their methods secret, but so do all of the other Covenants. They do, however, share the benefits of their findings. For good examples of services the Dragons can provide other Kindred, look no further than the Scales, most of which can be performed on other subjects. Epidermal Shielding Bath to help someone who needs to go out during the day. Flesh Graft Treatment for someone who got caught in a house fire. Augmented Vitae Draught and Kindred Sense Endowment to roid up the Invictus' Retainers. Blood Cleansing Ritual to help Carthians escape blood bonds to tyrannical elders. Sanguinary Invigoration on the ancient Bishop's herd so he can countinue to feed safely. Etc.
                Last edited by Charlaquin; 03-05-2017, 12:58 PM. Reason: You know youre a CofD nerd when your phone auto-corrects Epidermal to Ephemeral


                Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
                  Do scientists and scholars contribute anything immediate or tangible to the society?
                  Yes. Forensic scientists help catch criminals. Social sciences help manipulate society and the individual, such as therapy or marketing. Biochemists create medicines. And so on.

                  None of this really applies to Ordo, of course, but scientists / scholars have immense value to human society, both in the real world and the CofD, with immediate and tangible benefits for society as a whole.`

                  Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                  stuff.
                  Umm... so they're reinventing the wheel of stuff the other covenants can already do?


                  I'm beginning to feel that tsuasi is right, the Ordo don't really offer anything that the other four covenants don't do just as well, if not far better, and that I'll need to change them for my game. Maitrecorbo does hit on an interesting idea, being explorers, which now that I think about it, is mentioned in passing in the Ordo Dracul blurb too. I might go in that direction. I'll need to think more.
                  Last edited by MCN; 03-05-2017, 01:01 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Pull back; rather than looking at what they do in society, look at what they do for individuals. Every Covenant exists as an answer to the existential question of being a Vampire - the Carthians and Invictus offer purpose amd familiarity, the Circle and Sanctified offer spiritual comfort - and the Ordo likewise does the same.

                    The Ordo has two things to offer: control (which is terrifyingly lacking for someone Embraced) and the chance of a way out somewhere down the line. If you can't see the ready appeal of that in any domain, you aren't looking.


                    Just call me Lex.

                    Female pronouns for me, please.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MCN View Post
                      Umm... so they're reinventing the wheel of stuff the other covenants can already do?
                      No? All of the examples I gave are abilities unique to the Ordo, except maybe, arguably, Skin Graft Treatment can kind of be replicated by Night Doctor Surgery if you squint. But if you want shielding against the sun, Epidermal Shielding is your only option. If you want to continue feeding on your human Herd without spending Willpower past BP6, your only option is Sanguinary Invigoration. I think there's a Carthian Law Merit in Secrets that lets you circumvent Blood Bonds, but Blood Cleansing Ritual came first, so if anyone is re-inventing the wheel it's the Carthians.

                      The Dragons are inventors. Engineers of the Kindred Condition, creating ways to make other Kindred's unlives easier.


                      Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                      My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nope. Cruac rituals can let you feed past BP 6 without vinculum establishment. So can Invictus oaths as liege or vassal. The Invictus and Carthians can purge vinculums. Acolytes can become immune to vinculums.
                        Resilience downgrades aggravated damage. Nothing unique or covenant exclusive about that.
                        Night Doctor Surgery downgrades aggravated damage to be healed as lethal without the nasty side effect of potentially being placed under a 2 stage vinculum or needing 24 hr preparation time.
                        Go out in sunlight? Use Dominate 5 on a human. Nothing covenant exclusive about that either. Someone can even transfer that ability to someone who doesn't have Dominate via Chain of Command.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I agree that Scales are what the Ordo would provide. And I kind of envision it as a sort of deal with the devil kind of thing, given the typically unpleasant processes and consequences. You go to them when you're desperate, which I think would be an interesting dynamic.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                            Pull back; rather than looking at what they do in society, look at what they do for individuals.
                            Sorry, no, that's kind of very much against what I'm trying to do right now.

                            Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                            No? All of the examples I gave are abilities unique to the Ordo
                            Ah, no, Epidermial Shielding is the only one that is unique. Pretty much everything else exists in one form or another. I mean, hells, I count three ways for the Lance to feed their elders at minimum.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The Ordo Dracul are scholars and loremasters in a purely scientific, objective sense. In a society where all five are present, with the Invictus or Carthians in charge, they are the ones who will offer their Prince the most straightforward answers to phenomena in the CofD. The Lance and the Crone, while they explore the supernatural, are very much religious organizations with their own dogma, faith, and taboos. A Prince may want the power from a certain Wyrm's Nest, but the Lance tell them not to look beyond their mission to God, and the Crone tell them that it is a sacred place and must remain undefiled and only in service of Our Mother. The Dragons will tell them "eh, yeah, with a certain arcane manipulation, we could theoretically use the Wyrm's Nest to power a devotion that makes it so that anyone present is unable to lie to you. I see no reason we can't do that with a little effort."

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X