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  • Mesmerize condition help

    With the mesmerize condition, it is stated it lasts the entire scene or until the sun comes up. If you order, "drop your gun!" and the person fulfills the command, does the condition end or are they still mesmerized? Basically, while mesmerized, are they just a puppet waiting for continual orders, or is it a one and one type of deal?



  • #2
    Originally posted by adonus View Post
    With the mesmerize condition, it is stated it lasts the entire scene or until the sun comes up. If you order, "drop your gun!" and the person fulfills the command, does the condition end or are they still mesmerized? Basically, while mesmerized, are they just a puppet waiting for continual orders, or is it a one and one type of deal?
    Neither. They behave normally, albeit maybe a little quieter and more reserved than normal, and they are also susceptible to further commands for as long as the Condition lasts (normally for the rest of the scene, unless they take damage, a Breaking Point, or the sun rises).


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    • #3
      You can continue to issue commands as long as your victim is Mesmerized, though note that injury or a command that forces them to experience a breaking point will resolve the condition early.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
        Neither. They behave normally, albeit maybe a little quieter and more reserved than normal, and they are also susceptible to further commands for as long as the Condition lasts (normally for the rest of the scene, unless they take damage, a Breaking Point, or the sun rises).

        So during combat, a hunter is mesmerized. The vampire orders to drop your weapon. THe hunter throws the pistol to the ground. After the command, while still mesmerized, will he then attempt to pick the weapon up? A debate is going on as to if the human hunter can even attempt to pick the weapon up again.


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        • #5
          Originally posted by adonus View Post
          So during combat, a hunter is mesmerized. The vampire orders to drop your weapon. THe hunter throws the pistol to the ground. After the command, while still mesmerized, will he then attempt to pick the weapon up? A debate is going on as to if the human hunter can even attempt to pick the weapon up again.

          Mesmerized victims follow commands to the best of their understanding. A hunter told to drop a gun will understand the implication that he shouldn't immediately pick it up again.


          Rose Bailey
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Rose Bailey View Post


            Mesmerized victims follow commands to the best of their understanding. A hunter told to drop a gun will understand the implication that he shouldn't immediately pick it up again.
            But, will that hunter continue the fight or stay quiet?
            And does a command like: shot yourself end the condition before or after the shot?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Marcus View Post
              But, will that hunter continue the fight or stay quiet?
              This is a hotly debated question. I have gone back and forth on how I think the description should be interpreted, but ultimately I have always ruled that the victim will continue to do what they were doing before being Mezmerized unless commanded otherwise, including attacking the vampire. And this is for a meta-game reason - the exceptional success allowing the Vampire to issue a command in the same turn that they activate Mezmerize is only useful in a situation where turns are being tracked (so, combat) and it's far less useful in such a situation if the victim stops attacking for a turn on a normal success anyway.

              Originally posted by Marcus View Post
              And does a command like: shot yourself end the condition before or after the shot?
              I would say it depends on the victim. If they have a Breaking Point trigger based on suicide or gun violence, then before for the Breaking Point. Otherwise, after for the damage.
              Last edited by Charlaquin; 03-10-2017, 08:55 PM.


              Onyx Path Forum Moderator

              My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

              Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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              • #8
                Fix your quote block. You are incorrectly attributing a statement to me that was made by someone else.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Marcus View Post
                  But, will that hunter continue the fight or stay quiet?
                  In general, I personally argue that continuing to fight is against the idea of being quiet and reserved, or even hypnotised. You don't look it, but, yes, you are very much hypnotized. Committing violence is a highly agressive action, and agressive is pretty much the antonym of reserved.

                  Yes, being able to issue commands in the middle of combat immediately is the benefit of an exceptional success. But that command could have been "shoot your friends," or "protect me;" there's nothing innate about the rules that suggest that "stop fighting" has to be issued as a command beyond personal taste. Any number of commands can be highly useful in combat.

                  And does a command like: shot yourself end the condition before or after the shot?
                  Depends on the person in question. Breaking points are fickle like that. Is pointing a gun at someone, including yourself, a breaking point? Then yes, it will end before the shot. Is pointing a gun at someone not a breaking point? Then it won't end. Hells, for some people shooting yourself won't even be a breaking point. Rare to the point its only worth considering as an academic point, and the damage will snap you out of the Condition anyways, but theoretically something possible for breaking points.

                  That said, given that "shoot your husband" is given as a valid example of the power, many feel that most people won't experience a breaking point (and thus end the power) until after the shot is made. Dominate will primarily be used on NPCs, and giving NPCs a suicide trigger specifically to avoid this is kind of a low blow.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MCN View Post
                    In general, I personally argue that continuing to fight is against the idea of being quiet and reserved, or even hypnotised. You don't look it, but, yes, you are very much hypnotized. Committing violence is a highly agressive action, and agressive is pretty much the antonym of reserved.

                    Yes, being able to issue commands in the middle of combat immediately is the benefit of an exceptional success. But that command could have been "shoot your friends," or "protect me;" there's nothing innate about the rules that suggest that "stop fighting" has to be issued as a command beyond personal taste. Any number of commands can be highly useful in combat.

                    Depends on the person in question. Breaking points are fickle like that. Is pointing a gun at someone, including yourself, a breaking point? Then yes, it will end before the shot. Is pointing a gun at someone not a breaking point? Then it won't end. Hells, for some people shooting yourself won't even be a breaking point. Rare to the point its only worth considering as an academic point, and the damage will snap you out of the Condition anyways, but theoretically something possible for breaking points.

                    That said, given that "shoot your husband" is given as a valid example of the power, many feel that most people won't experience a breaking point (and thus end the power) until after the shot is made. Dominate will primarily be used on NPCs, and giving NPCs a suicide trigger specifically to avoid this is kind of a low blow.

                    I say that you can't hit a breaking point without actually doing the thing that would be breaking you. Murdering my husband and my children and slaughtering my dogs and cats is certainly most awful and I get a little sick thinking about doing it, but thinking about it isnt breaking me, doing it would. Again with the whole shoot yourself, there are lots of people who 'think" about suicide, but it's not a breaking point until they actually do it.

                    If you want the person to stop fighting you, don't issue the command "Drop your gun", but instead issue the command, "Stop Fighting me. " or even "Hold perfectly still" So even if they were pointing the gun at you about to shoot you, they couldn't. Try to figure out what your goal is and word it as such. Like MCN said, there are tons of creative ways to issue commands. I have had some mouthy dominated people, but that's just because that's who they were, but they never physically took actions or didn't do what was told of them. Perhaps just being a mouthy jerk was far more reserved than they normally would have been.

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                    • #11
                      Humans aren't bound to the same humanity sins as vampires when facing breaking points. It's more subjective, and I agree with MCN that it doesn't have to be an act you take. It can be witnessing something, it can be the force of the supernatural coming to bear upon you in physical, emotional or mental ways.

                      One of the braking point prompts in the WoC core is "What is the worst thing you can imagine yourself doing?"

                      If a character is being Mesmerized to do something worse than that, and feels their body is in fact moving to do so regardless of their own will or control - I would absolutely allow that character to break the Mesmerism and suffer a breaking point before pulling to trigger or committing the horrible act.

                      And I'm going to disagree with Vitalis. There's a difference between just contemplating suicide vs. staring down into the San Francisco Bay with the wind whipping around you or feeling the cold metal of of a gun against your temple and knowing the safety's off. A breaking point at that moment just before the final act is sometimes the only thing that snaps a person out of truly ending it.

                      But yes - I absolutely agree that strategic uses of Mesmerism can circumvent that. Someone who has attempted suicide before or or is in the midst of depression or grief might only suffer that breaking point after jumping or pulling the trigger. Or you take the time to make them believe they've lost it all or a trauma has occurred, and then you slide in the command. But one-and-done "kill yourself" commands for a dot one power aren't my cup of tea.
                      Last edited by Holy; 03-10-2017, 05:21 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
                        Fix your quote block. You are incorrectly attributing a statement to me that was made by someone else.
                        Sorry. I copy and paste quote tags a lot, every once in a while an incorrect copy slips in.


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                        • #13
                          No problem.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Vitalis View Post
                            I say that you can't hit a breaking point without actually doing the thing that would be breaking you.
                            I don't disagree. But for some characters, merely having a gun pointed at them, or contemplating suicide, may be "the thing that would be breaking you."


                            Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                            My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

                            Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

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