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Breaking Vitæ addiction/Vinculum

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  • Breaking Vitæ addiction/Vinculum

    I was going to ask this in the 'Ask a simple question' thread, but I'm not so sure it's a simple question or has a simple answer.

    Is there anything in the published material that could reflect tapering the dosage of vampire blood so as to wean someone of Vitæ addiction/Vinculum? V:tR 2nd Ed. says on pg. 100 that 'ways to diffuse the bond are unreliable myths at best', but is there anything already made that could be used for this purpose? I feel like there's drug addiction rules somewhere, but for the life of me I can't remember where.

  • #2
    I don't know about Vitae addiction, but Ordo Dracul has a scale for removing blood bonds. It's in the book so the "unreliable myths at best" is pure flavour talk and complete bullshit.

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    • #3
      Or in-character deflection from a Dragon.

      "No, of course I can't break a vinculum by waterboarding someone in blood, don't be ridiculous."

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      • #4
        As do the Carthians (sort of) for the bond.

        For beating addiction? Outside of mind control and torpor (maybe?) the only option I know of is the Condition itself. "Resolution: Regain a dot of Integrity, lose another dot of Integrity, or achieve an exceptional success on a breaking point." The Addicted Condition first appeared in God Machine Chronicle, so the Integrity part should be replaced with Humanity as part of moving the Condition to Vampire; at least, that's my assumption. I might also allow an exceptional success on the Resolve + Composure roll to avoid drinking to be a Resolution, but it hasn't really come up in any game I've been in, so that's immaterial.

        As such, given my interpretation of the Condition, Addicted really goes away rather quickly on its own to the point that developing counter measures beyond Dominate or a torpor nap, I don't know if its necessary.

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        • #5
          From an in-universe point of view it's very true. Any way of removing a blood bond would be highly guarded since it becomes an even more valuable tool if the other side doesn't know about it.

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          • #6
            I want to avoid Torpor, and I should probably specify I'm asking for a mix of Werewolves, a Beast, and a few Humans as well as a Vampire. All related, most by blood, but that's neither here nor there.
            They've gone to a nice Italian place, and the food was delicious (if slightly strange) beyond compare. Most of them resisted the delightful delicacies of hypnotic hunger, but the Beast, one Human, and the Vampire failed for their Vitæ addiction/Vinculum respectively. Given that I want to represent a lesser dosage, I wanted to see if there's anything to represent the model already extant in the texts.

            I had forgotten that my PDF had an appendix of Conditions that I had separated. Vitæ addiction is listed right there as a possible source of the (persistent) Addicted Condition. Given that I'm blending elements of cWoD, nWoD, and CoD alongside some homebrew, I like to have that mechanical base to work with. I also found Kismet's excellent rules for drugs in WoD, which I'll definitely be modeling some of this after.

            If combat isn't where this goes, it'll be fun for me to have those delicious meals worm their way into dreams for the next five months.

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            • #7
              The blood bond is easy to remove.

              Just wait a year and it fades.

              Removing it quicker is where it gets hard.

              The blood bond lasts a year from the most recent drink.
              Full or partial, the bond disintegrates after that time. Outside
              waiting out the year, methods for diffusing the bond — save
              for an overwhelming third-stage bond — are unreliable myths
              at best. The year limit isn’t quite on a calendar…it can vary by
              a few days or weeks. We simplify to a year for easy gameplay.

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              • #8
                Given that I'm running a mixed game with external and internal deadlines, Torpor* or 'just waiting a year' is less appealing than simply killing the characters.

                I'm not looking for 'counter measures', I'm looking for either rehab or dilution of the initial dose, and I think I'll be using some of what I found coupled with the reminder of Conditions to have a way to purify oneself by forcing a breaking point in a therapeutic, controlled environment as well as the cWoD rules for timelines if need be. It's pretty much what I thought would be how things went, so I'm satisfied... if a bit embarrassed that I got too specific in my searching to remember generalized addiction.

                *Canonically, Torpor doesn't do the trick, and it's ideally avoided because a lot of stuff is going to happen in a short space of time.
                Last edited by Necrophear; 03-17-2017, 03:01 PM.

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                • #9
                  Vinculum is different from Vitae Addiction though. Which is it that you're trying to avoid? Vinculum is receiving false(good/likeable) feelings towards the "donor" of the blood while Vitae Addiction is just that, Addicted condition towards Vitae. Both occur or have a chance to when taking a dose.
                  If you want to represent a partial dose, then just give them X bonus dice to resist.

                  I don't think there is really a way to be partially addicted to something, it's pretty binary. As for the Vinculum, it's not crippling at the 1st stage and if they don't even know who the "donor" is, then the point is moot anyway.
                  Last edited by Rathamus; 03-17-2017, 04:38 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Both, and Vinculum is in addition to Vitæ addiction per RAW. The Human and Beast are both Blood Addicted, while the Vampire failed resisting both Blood Addiction and Vinculum. The aftermath of addiction is what I'm interested in, the struggle and interplay of behavior there is what I'm emphasizing rather than mere 'fighting off an impulse'.
                    Given that there's psychological, physical, and supernatural addictions potentially at play here, I think treating this like a binary system is pretty limiting in a narrative game.

                    The addictions and devotion to the food will still play out, perceived as the source of the addictive quality. Same as when opiates were put in food products to make them sell better, for pretty much the same reasons.

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                    • #11
                      Well for addiction, the Vampire is in for some strange looks if/when he bleeds(intentionally or not)or maybe even sleeps in the presence of the others as both present "an opportunity to indulge" but he himself would have similar issues around other vampires in vulnerable positions.

                      As for the Vinculum, not knowing who dosed them could be fun in the way you eventually present the one who did, assuming they still don't know. You could present him as a more caring, trustworthy, and just swell guy version of what he really is and how his interests align so well with the groups. Of course he could actually be just the opposite but the Vinculum makes him seem that way in their eyes.
                      Doing it purely narratively could be difficult if only some of the party are partially bound but I would err on the side of whatever makes the best story.

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                      • #12
                        You could convince the ones who resisted that they need to kill the owner of the blood/vitae to lift the vinculum to prevent re-dosing and an even stronger bond. The vitae addiction is tougher, and might just be a weakness those characters have from now on? Sounds fun

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