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  • Going around mesmerizing cheerfully

    Hi,

    What are the NPCs reaction (legit or not) that you as master would use against someone that use mental disciplines on them?
    Could you provide some specific example?
    What prevent an eleder or an ancilla to just go around mesmerizzing Everyone? What risks should her reasonably expect?
    Denounce to the Prince or private revenge?

  • #2
    Isn't Willy nilly discipline use going to draw the attention of the wrong kinda people, both vampire and not so much vampire?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Marcus View Post
      Hi,

      What are the NPCs reaction (legit or not) that you as master would use against someone that use mental disciplines on them?
      Use mental powers back. This is Vampire - use of mental disciplines is not only expected, its encouraged. Observe the quote about Elysium:

      "The promise of safety from direct physical harm does not extend to protection from treachery. Kindred paw at each other with their dread abilities and profane arts — this is not forbidden."

      Elysium, the safest place that vampires can gather and often bearing bonuses against frenzy and against Lashing Out, is still opend to encourage use of Dominate, Majesty, Nightmare, Obfuscate, Auspex and Animalism.

      Daeva, using Majesty, are well liked by vampire population. Its right there in the stereotypes. Its part of the game's assumptions. But the Daeva need to be careful - flirt too much with the Ventrue, and they might end up accidentily Dominated and sipping on someone's veins some time. A Mehket could realize what was going on and slip away with their powers. Pushing a Gangrel too hard, and, well, they're called Savages for a reason - their responce to treachery tend to be very physical outside of Elysium, and trying to charm an animal swarm with agg claws that's riding the wave is a losing proposition.

      Ventrue that overuse Dominate run into similar problems. Putting aside the risk of a crappy roll and not knowing someone isn't under your sway, eventually people will notice, and its VERY easy to snap someone out of Mesmerize.

      An armed society is a polite society by necessity. All of vampire society is built around the expectation that they'll try to mentally influence each other. Cotories watch each other's backs against this kind of interference, they combine strengths to protect against being used. They form territories that give them strength against someone intruding (Lex Terrae, Gilded Cage, Feeding Ground bonuses to Lashing Out, etc). They work through ghoul proxies and messages and rely on their sires and elders for protection.

      Could you provide some specific example?
      I was playing a Daeva Neglatu PC when we were at Elysium. Got Mesermized by a fellow Invictus. Another player, going with the Mehket Crone, had been playing wallflower doing the Obfuscate + Auspex thing, noticed the problem, walked up under cloak to my character, and slapped her upside the head, breaking the spell. Got told it was my own damn fault for using Entrancement on the entire place and making everyone like me, so of course I'd get some unwanted attention with the wanted ones.

      Needless to say, this sparked a rivalry with that Invictus' cotorie against our cotorie. Granted, the rivalry didn't last long, because I was quickly becoming unhappy with the Neglatu and evnetually the PC ended up getting killed off, but the ponit remains.

      What prevent an eleder or an ancilla to just go around mesmerizzing Everyone?
      Nothing. As it should be. Powers are there to be used. Should mages not cast spells against each other? Should werewolves not use Gifts in hunts against each other? The only restraint should be the story that the ST wants to tell.

      What risks should her reasonably expect?
      Denounce to the Prince or private revenge?
      As I said, default Vampire assumes everyone is using such abiilties. Using such powers have their own innate drawbacks, especially when they're not 100 percent reliable. No magic is. And that's how you make enemies who use powers mess with you right back.

      Vampire puts the responcibility on the victim to defend themselves against such treachery. Have back up, don't put yourself in a vulnerable position. Risk aversion management. If you get caught out using magic mind control, then you make enemies, which is both punishment and reward (bored elders looking for plot hooks to entertain themselves is a thing

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      • #4
        Absolutely nothing stops a character from going around and mesmerizing everyone they encounter. Everyone does get a resist check and the condition is removed if the victim sustains a point of bashing damage from anything and it wears off at the end of a scene so there's no guarantee everyone will just automatically obey issued commands. But no, there's no proof and it's easily deniable.
        Question though: Do the Daeva in your setting run around using Awe everywhere? Do Mekhet run around using Auspex at every opportunity collecting dirt? Do Mekhet and Nosferatu permanently keep Obfuscate on to conceal their aura and hide weapons on their person while in Elysium? Do Nosferatu keep Dread Presence centered on themselves running all the time? Do Gangrel always maintain an animal feature for intimidation and combat purposes? If the answer to ANY of those questions is yes, then you should absolutely expect Ventrue to go around pre-emptively mesmerizing everyone to avoid being victimized. If such behavior by the other clans is not considered acceptable and is a punishable offense if caught, then no, mesmerizing everyone would not be acceptable. Like everything else though, you need proof, which pretty much entails letting yourself get violated by a Mekhet, another Ventrue, or blood magician, or an eyewitness event by another character who was probably breaking such prohibitions by sneaking around using Obfuscate.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
          Like everything else though, you need proof, which pretty much entails letting yourself get violated by a Mekhet, another Ventrue, or blood magician, or an eyewitness event by another character who was probably breaking such prohibitions by sneaking around using Obfuscate.
          This part is important. In my games, using powers of the blood against other vampires is ostensibly forbidden in most Domains. But it's an open secret that everyone does it anyway, because it's difficult to prove and no one wants to be the only one playing by the rules.


          Onyx Path Forum Moderator

          My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

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          • #6
            The obvious ironic punishment would be removal of the tongue or eyes.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by nofather View Post
              The obvious ironic punishment would be removal of the tongue or eyes.
              Or shove a red hot poker into a naughty Ventrue's eye sockets to "cauterize" the wound and make it difficult to heal.

              That'll keep 'em from going around mesmerizing cheerfully.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by RomulusGloriosus View Post

                Or shove a red hot poker into a naughty Ventrue's eye sockets to "cauterize" the wound and make it difficult to heal.

                That'll keep 'em from going around mesmerizing cheerfully.
                Uh no. That's a surefire way to draw others' attention to their eyes making it easier for them to mesmerize others.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tsusasi View Post

                  Uh no. That's a surefire way to draw others' attention to their eyes making it easier for them to mesmerize others.
                  Well, I assume they don't have eyes, anymore, given that you generally don't have eyes after you get a red hot poker stabbed into your eye sockets. I will concede that I have never actually done this though, so I may be wrong....

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                  • #10
                    is their any reason you can see not to use such powers on your childe or ghoul?


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                    • #11
                      A confused or disoriented ghoul or childe is a less useful one and can have its own side effects. In the first Requiem novels one of the protagonists keeps using Dominate on her friend to forget things, and he finds himself disturbed over these blank patches of memories and eventually kills himself.

                      It's also easier for an enemy to take advantage.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RomulusGloriosus View Post

                        Well, I assume they don't have eyes, anymore, given that you generally don't have eyes after you get a red hot poker stabbed into your eye sockets. I will concede that I have never actually done this though, so I may be wrong....
                        If you're human, yes, your eyes will be gone. You'd have black charred scabs and melted flesh where your eyes were until it heals, then reddish black sockets on your face where eyes used to be. Vampires, however, can grow their eyes back. And Dominate works more along the lines of having the person's attention to command them more than being able to distinguish the iris or scelera of the victim or the vampire.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tsusasi View Post

                          If you're human, yes, your eyes will be gone. You'd have black charred scabs and melted flesh where your eyes were until it heals, then reddish black sockets on your face where eyes used to be. Vampires, however, can grow their eyes back. And Dominate works more along the lines of having the person's attention to command them more than being able to distinguish the iris or scelera of the victim or the vampire.
                          I had assumed that the heat of the red hot poker would deal aggravated damage to a Vampire. So while the Vampire would be able to grow their eyes back, it would take them a considerably longer time for them to regrow their eyes instead of if it was just the "lethal" of ripping the eyes out of the sockets. But it's true that if you assume Dominate doesn't necessarily require "eye contact" but the person's attention, then it's all just gore anyhow.

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                          • #14
                            Superheated metal is technically not fire or sunlight. But I wouldn't assume it does aggravated damage simply because of resilience.
                            It can still be an effective punishment as lethal damage for the gore factor, particularly of they're forbidden or prevented from healing it for a time. But I wouldnt say it deters Dominate use in and of itself.

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                            • #15
                              Yeah, vampires take aggravated damage from fire itself, not from any source of heat. That said, molten metal would almost certainly do aggravated to humans under the "completely destroys significant quantities of tissue" rule, and therefore lethal to vampires.


                              Onyx Path Forum Moderator

                              My mod voice is red. I use it so you know when I'm speaking in an official capacity, not as an indication of tone.

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