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What does it take for a ​Masochist to recover Willpower in your games?

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  • What does it take for a ​Masochist to recover Willpower in your games?

    What does it take for a ​Masochist to recover Willpower in your games?
    Masochist
    A masochist savors suffering. To a masochist, living without pain is not living. He never runs from a chance to experience new tortures.

    Single Willpower: Find and experience a new source of hurt.
    All Willpower: Willingly explore pain, beyond the point of safety and reason.
    The single willpower level seems like a total bitch; sure at first it's easy, but each time you "find and experience a new source of hurt" you're used up that source (it's no longer new the second time).

    What does it take to qualify as "beyond the point of safety and reason"?

  • #2
    I'd say surviving a kamikaze attack or being tortured willingly would be fine.

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    • #3
      If the Masochist is living dangerously, I'd say every new threat counts as a new source of hurt. It's one thing to undergo pain under controlled circumstances - that can get old eventually. It's another thing to go out there and confront actual danger. The outcome is always unpredictable, because the circumstances and people involved are different. For instance, I'd award them Willpower every time they take a beating from someone to let their friends escape, even if it's plain old fisticuffs each time. However, if they always go against the same people, the situation might get predictable and they might get no reward. Having survived multiple times they know there's no risk.


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      • #4
        Long time masochist PC highlight reels:
        • Using Lay Open the Mind to dig for and experience individuals' worst moments and experience them themselves.
        • Allowed being staked and kept conscious to see how long until insanity or nightmares took their toll
        • Tortured by a Lancea Inquisitor in exchange for information.
        • Committed a series of inhuman acts to specifically face the pain of a breaking point.
        • Willingly uses Spirit's Touch on any objects with dangerous or painful effects.
        • Grabbed the hand of an Acolyte with known Touch of the Morrigan activated.
        • Purposefully crossed (multiple times) a magic barrier that inflicted damage on each crossing to better learn how it inflicted pain.
        • Struggled against a flame spirit in a mental contest while taking phantasmagorical burn damage each round.
        As for single vs all rewards, it all depends on the magnitude of consequences. If the pain being experienced is mostly a story element, I tend to reward the one. If the hurt being suffered comes with active dramatic consequences - such as the real risk of torpor / death / loss of long-term resources - I'll give the complete refresh.

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        • #5
          The examples listed for each Archetype are just that: examples. They aren't all-inclusive.

          A better guideline for when to grant Willpower (especially given how easily Willpower is meant to flow in CofD) is the opening text for the section:

          Any time a vampire overcomes a small hurdle in defense of
          her Mask, she gains a point of Willpower. When committing
          atrocious or existentially risky acts in defense of her Mask, she
          regains all her spent Willpower points.
          Any time a vampire withdraws from his outside life in
          defense of his truer self, he gains a point of Willpower. When
          committing terrible, damning acts in defense of his personal
          identity, he regains all his spent Willpower points.
          I suspect the "new source" is to keep things risky and interesting rather than a hard limit. Can't just have a member of your coeterie punch you in the face once every time you need Willpower.

          Either way, I've found if you limit yourself to just the examples given (which isn't the RAW way of doing things, given the text in the Anchors section) leads to pretty much never granting Willpower, which is no fun for anybody. Broad interpretations are your friend.

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          • #6
            I'm pretty sure "new" here is being used here to mean "novel" or "different", not "unique." Think less "experience a source of hurt you have never experienced before" and more "experience a source of hurt which is out of the ordinary for you." So, if you go to the same BDSM club and get flogged every week, it's probably not going to give you Willpower, but it's also not as though you can only ever receive Willpower for a particular painful experience once. The important thing is that you keep trying new things, not that you never repeat things you've already tried.


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            • #7
              People do seem to forget sometimes that the book is providing examples of an example of things that could provide willpower, not a description of what must be done to provide it.

              "Here are numerous sample archetypes for your characters’
              Masks and Dirges. Feel free to pull from this list, or come up
              with your own. Each includes a brief description, and sample
              actions that could recover Willpower for each. "

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Amravanti View Post
                People do seem to forget sometimes that the book is providing examples of an example of things that could provide willpower, not a description of what must be done to provide it.
                Some of the people responding to this thread so far seem to have not bothered to read the original post! Nothing there assumes that those are the only two options, and in fact the whole point of thread is about asking people what examples they've used in their games; It's in the thread title and the first sentence for goodness sake!
                Last edited by NineDaysDead; 03-19-2017, 10:55 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Maina View Post
                  The examples listed for each Archetype are just that: examples. They aren't all-inclusive.
                  Really? So maybe if I wanted some ideas for other examples I could start a thread about what other people have used in their games?

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                  • #10
                    Yeah. You could both ask for examples of how to resolve archetypes as well as for different archetypes. The list of archetypes in the book is also just a list of examples.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                      Yeah. You could both ask for examples of how to resolve archetypes as well as for different archetypes. The list of archetypes in the book is also just a list of examples.

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                      • #12
                        Edit: Nevermind

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NineDaysDead View Post
                          Some of the people responding to this thread so far seem to have not bothered to read the original post! Nothing there assumes that those are the only two options, and in fact the whole point of thread is about asking people what examples they've used in their games; It's in the thread title and the first sentence for goodness sake!
                          The second question in the original post asks what it takes to qualify for one of the two examples given in the archetype text. The structure of the post with the included quote makes it seem that the second question is a clarification of the first question rather than a separate question. That is why people has assumed you were not aware there might be more options than those written.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                            The structure of the post with the included quote makes it seem that the second question is a clarification of the first question rather than a separate question.
                            Can you explain that assertion?

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                            • #15
                              The first question in the post seems like an opening; i.e. something that sets tone or theme, in contrast to the actual content to follow. Directly after that you have a quote where at least half the text is the suggested ways of gaining Willpower. Then you discuss the suggested ways of gaining Willpower before asking a less general question about one of the suggested ways of gaining Willpower. Now I get that you were wondering about alternate ways of gaining Willpower from the archetype, but nothing in your post is explicit about that and only the opening question can even be interpreted that way while the rest of the post discusses the examples in the book.
                              Last edited by Tessie; 03-19-2017, 12:38 PM.

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