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[2E] Alternative Daeva Clan Bane

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Poseur View Post

    This is in Uppsala right? Might be just me, but as a swede it's actually really weird thinking that one of our largest cities would be lead by LS, or that LS would be very influential in Sweden. Like sweden is one of the most secular countries around and one of the most left-ish and progressive. Like the themes in Sweden don't yell Lancea et Sactum to me. I guess the old bishop could be old and powerful enough to still be prince, but holy cow would the opposition be greater year by year and fewer and fewer members joining his covenant. Just my thoughts thou, you are offcourse in your right to do what you want.
    Well, Uppsala WAS Reformation and Church of Sweden center for at least two centuries ( I mean here XVII - XIX century ). Modern Sweden can be all secular all it wants but compared to other Scandinavia countries - you are most religious one, in border sense, from just century before, historicly speaking. The same is to be said about Poland for Central Europe ( but we are STILL 'officially' religious Catholics). For vampires, society changes from last century are blink of the eye - once Church Ethernal is in rule, it's hard to get it out from it.

    And, well, chronicle is based on idea of religions clash and that Norse gods were more or less forgotten in High Medieval, leading to left aside Shadow Realm.

    And those are Vampire NPCs in Werewolf game, not Vampire game on it's own - they have particular reasons to fulfill in story.

    And all it's return to Daeva 1E Bane as I was aiming for the Archbishop character to be real zealot. In 1E he easily could have Wrath or Pride as his Bane - in 2E 'obsession on herd' Bane just do not work with character I imagine. 😑
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 07-17-2017, 05:29 AM.


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    • #32
      There's also a difference between it being fun WATCHING or READING about someone without agency, and it being fun PLAYING someone without agency. Listing interesting characters without agency in other media isn't valid, because the media totally changes how the trait "without agency" is experienced. It's like saying "long internal monologues are great", listing a whole pile of long internal monologues in books, but meanwhile everyone else is talking about how long internal monologues in movies suck because you're just watching a character's facial expression while they stare at a wall. Sure, it's great in the right media, but just as film isn't the right media for characters who sit and have internal conversations, RPGs aren't the right media for playing characters without agency.

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      • #33
        Forgive me for perpetuating the digression, but I find it intensely amusing that there's an argument about the appropriateness of less-agency characters in a game(s) that literally sends your PC into a murderous state at the slightest provocation and a bad die roll....

        And that literally gives the title characters an inner demon dragging them toward the PC "dead file".

        And explicitly includes setting-significant mechanics in various forms that trap not only bodies but emotions, minds and even souls.

        Agency takes many forms, but it seems self-apparent to me that the WoD, and CofD successor systems assume ALL characters are limited if not by others then by themselves in significant ways. Their agency, in other words, swings only as far as the narrative nose extends. The fact they hit constraints, lose control, or maybe never HAD control, is the point of playing the characters; either you as a player help them break free from that, or the game explores adapting to slow destruction in a form of bloody tragedy.

        Monsters, and all that.

        In any event, I'm not going to judge a troop that prefers escapist vamp fantasy: my own for many years could be described as that, pursuing "vampion" plotlines and egregious supernatural power with wild abandon. Personally? I find it more satisfying to make my job as a player to get the CHARACTER in as much trouble as possible, and entertainingly attempt escape. But this is slightly masochistic. As a Storyteller... I want to tell a good story, and that means populating the world with people who are broken in creative ways, a notch or two from the edge. This holds up a mirror for players and reinforces that they could have it worse.

        I actually like the Daeva clan bane quite a bit, not because it's an arse to avoid and requires planning, but because in short order you have characters sporting some of the most broken social powers saddled with vulnerability and need; this is... workable, from a story standpoint.

        --Khanwulf

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll View Post
          There's also a difference between it being fun WATCHING or READING about someone without agency, and it being fun PLAYING someone without agency. Listing interesting characters without agency in other media isn't valid, because the media totally changes how the trait "without agency" is experienced. It's like saying "long internal monologues are great", listing a whole pile of long internal monologues in books, but meanwhile everyone else is talking about how long internal monologues in movies suck because you're just watching a character's facial expression while they stare at a wall. Sure, it's great in the right media, but just as film isn't the right media for characters who sit and have internal conversations, RPGs aren't the right media for playing characters without agency.
          That is a very good point about different media having different degrees of immersion and different levels of tolerance for watching characters who are constrained try to work around those constraints, rather than feeling like we are constrained ourselves...

          As, Mel Brooks said, "Tragedy is when I cut my finger, Comedy is when [someone else] falls into an open sewer and dies."

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Nosimplehiway View Post

            That is a very good point about different media having different degrees of immersion and different levels of tolerance for watching characters who are constrained try to work around those constraints, rather than feeling like we are constrained ourselves...

            As, Mel Brooks said, "Tragedy is when I cut my finger, Comedy is when [someone else] falls into an open sewer and dies."

            Yes, and despite all my comment just above, different groups at different times are ready and willing for different portrayals.

            Tiny story time: long ago the GM for one group I played with convinced us easily to make the next game Fading Suns; "it'll be like Dune" he said, which we thought sounded great without any introspection, and made intricate characters founded on the backstory of our planet. Well Dune opens by crushing the featured characters and mercilessly dispossessing them, which we had all missed in the enthusiasm and were not, amidst the stresses of life, prepared to deal with. There was a table revolt and we returned to Buffy.... And this, with one whom I regard unapologetically as one of the best storytellers in the world.

            Agency, themes and story are very dependent.

            --Khanwulf

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