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Masquiem - what would you import from the VtM setting?

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  • Masquiem - what would you import from the VtM setting?

    I'm planning to eventually run a campaign using VtR 2e rules, but using the Masquerade setting. The PCs will be in a Canadian city that has remained independent from the two sects under an ancient and powerful Prince, who (just before or just after the campaign begins) gets bumped off by parties unknown. Their actions will determine the future of their city.

    So far I've decided to import
    1. the bleak and nasty World of Darkness (need to figure out specifics)
    2. the sect war between the Camarilla and Sabbat

    I'll be keeping the VtR clans, though some VtM disciplines might be available from wings of the Camarilla or Sabbat. (I want to reimagine VtR covenants as factions of the two great sects.)

    I've never actually played VtM so I thought I'd ask - what do you find cool about the setting? What would you carry forward?

  • #2
    To be honest two things I enjoyed about VtM and imported into VtR are:
    1. Jyhad - so metusselahs hiding behind the facets of their covenants are moving their pawns against each other
    2. Kitsch value that me and my players enjoy as even our game is set in the 90s and provides a lot of comedic value

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    • #3
      I think this is a toughy, because the things I like being present in Masquerade, are also the things I like being absent in Requiem.

      When I'm playing Masquerade, I like being part of a massive global conspiracy filled with all different kinds of vampires, some of which have pretty 'out there' powers, who are in constant struggle with this other global conspiracy. I like the epic mythos of god-like beings still in slumber all over the world, spinning unfathomable plots and intrigues in their dreams and affecting all the major players. I like the Christian backdrop, the stories of seeking redemption through God.

      In Requiem, I like that everything is down to earth and local. Vampires feel more like vampires, since you don't have any illusionsts, snake people, shadow people, or people flinging fireballs. These stories are more about personal drama and intimate horror.

      So integrating one with the other is really tough.


      The 'e' is omitted on purpose and for stylistc reasons... I promise.

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      • #4
        Is it so wrong of me to say "nothing?" Many of Requiem's design choices are done specifically to not be more of Masquerade, and that's why I love it.


        Remi. she/her. game designer.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Aneas View Post
          I think this is a toughy, because the things I like being present in Masquerade, are also the things I like being absent in Requiem.
          That's more or less where I'm at. Like, I kinda love the VtM (Revised) metaplot. That's what makes it sexy, and it tends to be what draws me back in. But then, I also kinda hate it? I'd never want that kind of overarching setting in Requiem beyond story hooks. The stuff I'm genuinely, unironically fond of in VtM isn't all that different from what's in Requiem.

          I've done lots of conversion stuff, as is evident from my signature, but more and more, I'm less and less interested in integrating the settings (I look back at some of my old conversion documents and am reminded I was young once, too...). If it came up, I'd probably run Masquerade with the Storytelling System now, but that's about as far as mixing goes. I do like using the old clans as bloodlines, but that's a little different.

          That being said, my favourite version of VtM isn't VtM. It's Dark Ages. DAV has a really rich setting, not nearly as bound by the strictures of the metaplot, and I'd definitely steal bits of it if I were running a Requiem game set in the medieval period.
          Last edited by Yossarian; 05-24-2017, 04:09 PM.



          Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

          Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
          Masquiem: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2nd
          Storytellers Vault: Author Page

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Orzhov View Post
            To be honest two things I enjoyed about VtM and imported into VtR are:
            1. Jyhad - so metusselahs hiding behind the facets of their covenants are moving their pawns against each other
            2. Kitsch value that me and my players enjoy as even our game is set in the 90s and provides a lot of comedic value
            Hidden Methuselahs figure into things (not sure how yet) - one of the things I want the characters to figure out quickly is that the Sabbat is right about the Camarilla being a tool of hidden elders. (And the Camarilla is right about the Sabbat being a threat to the Masquerade. Make your choice!)

            I hadn't really thought much about the time period. The more I think about it though, the more I like the idea of setting it in the 90s.

            Originally posted by Aneas View Post
            I think this is a toughy, because the things I like being present in Masquerade, are also the things I like being absent in Requiem.

            When I'm playing Masquerade, I like being part of a massive global conspiracy filled with all different kinds of vampires, some of which have pretty 'out there' powers, who are in constant struggle with this other global conspiracy. I like the epic mythos of god-like beings still in slumber all over the world, spinning unfathomable plots and intrigues in their dreams and affecting all the major players. I like the Christian backdrop, the stories of seeking redemption through God.

            In Requiem, I like that everything is down to earth and local. Vampires feel more like vampires, since you don't have any illusionsts, snake people, shadow people, or people flinging fireballs. These stories are more about personal drama and intimate horror.

            So integrating one with the other is really tough.
            I'd like to experiment with a lot of these things, minus many of the 'out there' powers of vampires, without inflicting yet another rule system on my group. The massive conspiracy, global struggle, epic elders, some of the powers...

            Originally posted by Yossarian View Post

            That's more or less where I'm at. Like, I kinda love the VtM (Revised) metaplot. That's what makes it sexy, and it tends to be what draws me back in. But then, I also kinda hate it? I'd never want that kind of overarching setting in Requiem beyond story hooks. The stuff I'm genuinely, unironically fond of in VtM isn't all that different from what's in Requiem.

            I've done lots of conversion stuff, as is evident from my signature, but more and more, I'm less and less interested in integrating the settings (I look back at some of my old conversion documents and am reminded I was young once, too...). If it came up, I'd probably run Masquerade with the Storytelling System now, but that's about as far as mixing goes. I do like using the old clans as bloodlines, but that's a little different.

            That being said, my favourite version of VtM isn't VtM. It's Dark Ages. DAV has a really rich setting, not nearly as bound by the strictures of the metaplot, and I'd definitely steal bits of it if I were running a Requiem game set in the medieval period.
            I love the Requiem 2e system, but the setting needs to be filled in with something (to a lesser or greater extent) - for this one specific campaign, I think OWoD/Masquerade fits the sort of themes I want to start the players off with.

            My current campaign is based on Requiem for Rome (albeit set in Britain) but I will take another look at the Dark Ages stuff before we get there.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by bkwrm79 View Post

              Hidden Methuselahs figure into things (not sure how yet) - one of the things I want the characters to figure out quickly is that the Sabbat is right about the Camarilla being a tool of hidden elders. (And the Camarilla is right about the Sabbat being a threat to the Masquerade. Make your choice!)


              I'd like to experiment with a lot of these things, minus many of the 'out there' powers of vampires, without inflicting yet another rule system on my group. The massive conspiracy, global struggle, epic elders, some of the powers...


              My current campaign is based on Requiem for Rome (albeit set in Britain) but I will take another look at the Dark Ages stuff before we get there.
              What I like to borrow from oWoD is the character set. There's a lot of work already done to define vampire "players" and I prefer the feel of hidden masters at least attempting to manipulate the world. Often failing. But that all seems to me to be what they'd attempt to do even in the face of the desire to turtle down in local domains. Throwing in characters that you could Google is as positive to me as incorporating real-world historical events and personalities.

              Also, the Camarilla, when I get to it, and possibly the Sabbat. I may just skip those and use the Covenants however, modifying bits as needed to create the necessary history.

              I'm also working with Britain--immediately post-Roman at the moment, with the intent to do the long game. We'll see how things go. (@bkwrm79 ping me if you want to share materials)

              What I won't use is the extent of oWoD bloodlines and wacky powers. There's enough already in Requiem to cover that, and I can redo certain bloodlines/clans as needed while ignoring what's irrelevant.

              --Khanwulf

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              • #8
                Based on what I've read about players' memories of VtM, there's a sort "iron curtain" feature that appeals to me. The idea that most of the Camarilla doesn't really know what the Sabbat are like and vice-versa or what kind of vampires are on other continents. I think the werewolves played a role in that.

                I like how developed the clans are, but when I mentally translate them to Requiem, they're mostly based around Requiem's covenants and metaplot.

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                • #9
                  I've run both in their most recent editions (with some overlap, borrowing the Humanity system from Requiem Second Edition when running Masquerade 20th Anniversary for example) so I've emphasised differences as well as common core elements. A few elements I focused on in particular:

                  The War Of Ages: The Camarilla is more reactionary than the Invictus, the anarchs more chaotic than the Carthians. I had a few vampires on either side willing to work with the others, but they were the exception. Without the natural rise of Blood Potency and the cap it puts on activity when it gets too high, older Kindred of stronger Generation can keep power far more readily. But equally, young vampires are much better at navigating the modern world - Requiem elders are noted as adapting well to change while Masquerade elders aren't. I also made the Caitiff a significant feature.

                  Clan And Lineage: Requiem emphasises Covenant over clan but Masquerade puts clan higher, especially in the case of restrictive ones like the Tremere, so I'd be tempted to convert them rather than using the broader Requiem clans. I put the Brujah and Toreador at odds, which in Requiem terms would really be two Daeva factions (ignoring the Bruja and Toreador bloodlines), made the Tremere a largely self-reliant mini-covenant of experts and oddballs a bit like the Ordo Dracul but mostly related by blood, and included the Giovanni as a fairly prominent local group, always on the outside of the Camarilla structure but making a show of their business, political and social connections. I also had one Malkavian NPC who was really more like a Mekhet to be honest.

                  The Final Nights: I heavily played up the looming End Times feel, with strange Caitiff including a Seer from Time Of Thin Blood, rivals to the Prince's power after it was called into question, and a central plot involving a Methuselah waking from torpor and moving from subtle manipulations to outright attacks against a rival ancient. I didn't got full-on Gehenna, but ancient powerful vampires at war definitely got more focus.


                  Craig Oxbrow
                  The Trinity Continuum freelancer

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Craig Oxbrow View Post
                    I also had one Malkavian NPC who was really more like a Mekhet to be honest.
                    Funny enough, the Mekhet I'm currently playing is basically a Dominate Malk.

                    I do sometimes wish there were a little more character variation in Requiem. I ultimately prefer the more archetypal clans (paired with bloodlines), but I think I'd like to see more things like the Jiang-Shi; Masquerade has no shortage of neat weirdo clans to choose from, and that is something I miss at times.



                    Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

                    Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
                    Masquiem: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2nd
                    Storytellers Vault: Author Page

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                    • #11
                      Honestly, after everything I've seen between both Masquerade & Requiem (the best of Blood & Smoke and the gems of the 20th anniversary series), I'd only be tempted to use the aforementioned Iron Curtain & Cold War vibe from Masqerade and some of the settings (cities & society, not metaplot. If it was incorporated at all it would be used only for plot hooks and be highly apocryphal.)


                      If you're insistant on using the Clans from Masquerade I recommend Craig Oxbrow's use of Masquerade Clans as Requiem Clan Lineages along certain faction lines. And before you decide to use the Sects from Masquerade I'd like to point you to the Danse Macabre supplement since it already has a setting hack where the 5 core Covenants are re-imagined as Camarilla/Sabbat esc world spanning Conspiracies.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Craig Oxbrow View Post
                        I've run both in their most recent editions (with some overlap, borrowing the Humanity system from Requiem Second Edition when running Masquerade 20th Anniversary for example) so I've emphasised differences as well as common core elements. A few elements I focused on in particular:

                        The War Of Ages: The Camarilla is more reactionary than the Invictus, the anarchs more chaotic than the Carthians. I had a few vampires on either side willing to work with the others, but they were the exception. Without the natural rise of Blood Potency and the cap it puts on activity when it gets too high, older Kindred of stronger Generation can keep power far more readily. But equally, young vampires are much better at navigating the modern world - Requiem elders are noted as adapting well to change while Masquerade elders aren't. I also made the Caitiff a significant feature.

                        Clan And Lineage: Requiem emphasises Covenant over clan but Masquerade puts clan higher, especially in the case of restrictive ones like the Tremere, so I'd be tempted to convert them rather than using the broader Requiem clans. I put the Brujah and Toreador at odds, which in Requiem terms would really be two Daeva factions (ignoring the Bruja and Toreador bloodlines), made the Tremere a largely self-reliant mini-covenant of experts and oddballs a bit like the Ordo Dracul but mostly related by blood, and included the Giovanni as a fairly prominent local group, always on the outside of the Camarilla structure but making a show of their business, political and social connections. I also had one Malkavian NPC who was really more like a Mekhet to be honest.

                        The Final Nights: I heavily played up the looming End Times feel, with strange Caitiff including a Seer from Time Of Thin Blood, rivals to the Prince's power after it was called into question, and a central plot involving a Methuselah waking from torpor and moving from subtle manipulations to outright attacks against a rival ancient. I didn't got full-on Gehenna, but ancient powerful vampires at war definitely got more focus.
                        If I keep Blood Potency, I think the Invictus Oaths really emphasize the parasitical nature of the elders, and would fit well in the more strictly hierarchical VtM world. Youngsters are in general more of a threat - they'll eventually catch up in Blood Potency - but perhaps that's why the powers that be send really promising ancillae off to do interesting and dangerous things. I think I prefer elders who actively eliminate competition to elders who can't be competed with.

                        One of the things I've loved about VtR from the start is the streamlined, more iconic clans, so I want to keep that, but rivalries between different lineages may well be necessary in places. I could use factions and secret cults to bring in any other powers I want around (e.g. Abyss Mystics wing of the Sabbat, with Obtenebration, and possibly the Tremere as the Cam equivalent).

                        The whole Final Nights thing so much potential - especially if I set the game in the 90s, I can tie in all the millenialism that feeds into it. Though I like your idea of not doing full-blown Gehenna.

                        It also probably does require Caitiffs and Thin Bloods. Shouldn't be too hard to import. I can use Revenants as part of the same general slow collapse of what makes vamps vamps. Especially if these aren't player options that's all pretty easy.

                        Originally posted by Dusksage View Post
                        Honestly, after everything I've seen between both Masquerade & Requiem (the best of Blood & Smoke and the gems of the 20th anniversary series), I'd only be tempted to use the aforementioned Iron Curtain & Cold War vibe from Masqerade and some of the settings (cities & society, not metaplot. If it was incorporated at all it would be used only for plot hooks and be highly apocryphal.)


                        If you're insistant on using the Clans from Masquerade I recommend Craig Oxbrow's use of Masquerade Clans as Requiem Clan Lineages along certain faction lines. And before you decide to use the Sects from Masquerade I'd like to point you to the Danse Macabre supplement since it already has a setting hack where the 5 core Covenants are re-imagined as Camarilla/Sabbat esc world spanning Conspiracies.
                        It's very much a setting import, not system. But thanks,I had forgotten all about DM (I got it a long time ago before I even had a group to try to play Vamp with). I'll take a look.

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                        • #13
                          Something i like but i feel that doesn't have a counter part in Requiem is the Sabbat. The Sabbat is many things so i am specifically referring to the sabbat as the shovel heads disposable goons aspect.

                          While games about the loss of humanity and politics is good, sometimes the games needs to cut loose and let the PC who has 2 to 3 physical disciplines on 5 to go town and have fun with little consequences. Also they serve as good shake up for the status quo when X elder/ancillae can die in a Sabbat raid. Sometime that i think is emulated but thoroughly failed in execution by the strix.

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                          • #14
                            Yeah, some of my players really like combat (and I think all of us enjoy it now and then). And the Strix are fun but not tailored to the combat characters. Sabbat shovel-heads or their Cam equivalents (depending which faction isn't chosen) would make a combat-focused session a recurring possibility.

                            The more I think about it the more I like the idea of moving this back to the 90s or late 80s and bringing in the Final Nights stuff. I always like having more than one big problem so the players have some choice in what to focus on.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LokiRavenSpeak View Post
                              Something i like but i feel that doesn't have a counter part in Requiem is the Sabbat. The Sabbat is many things so i am specifically referring to the sabbat as the shovel heads disposable goons aspect.
                              I've kind of used Belial's Brood for that purpose. In most of my games, when players meet the Brood, they're really just encountering a bunch of neonates who got seduced with promises of easy power and cool demon powers. The actual Brood members (all two of them, likely), wait in the background and wait for everyone to kill each other.



                              Social justice vampire/freelancer | He/Him

                              Actual Play: Vampire: The Requiem – Bloodlines
                              Masquiem: Curses of Caine in Requiem 2nd
                              Storytellers Vault: Author Page

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