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  • #91
    Originally posted by Yossarian View Post

    Not as many of us have had a chance to work on it, sadly. That being said, and I know it's still disappointing, I would expect there's going to be a lot of Mummy / Elder Kindred discussion in The Crossover Chronicle.
    There will indeed be.


    Matthew Dawkins
    Freelance Writer and Developer for Onyx Path Publishing

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    • #92
      So... Anyone else confused by the decision to give Julii Vigor instead of Animalism? I don't really get it. Commanding animals as well as people seemed very thematic, and it created that ambiguity of origin between the Julii, Ventrue, and Gangrel since they were all so similar. I just don't see how Vigor fits in...


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      • #93
        Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
        So... Anyone else confused by the decision to give Julii Vigor instead of Animalism? I don't really get it. Commanding animals as well as people seemed very thematic, and it created that ambiguity of origin between the Julii, Ventrue, and Gangrel since they were all so similar. I just don't see how Vigor fits in...
        I kinda agree with this. If they wanted to make things bit more confusing they could drop Majesty(fits better imho)on this guys. Also the clan curse is kinda ech. It relies on external factors and can either cripple you or be nonissue depanding on the game

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        • #94
          I'm operating entirely on Second-Hand knowledge here, but the Requiem 2E Core write-up on the Julii seems pretty emphatic that these Kindred were a clan to be reckoned with. Vigor, (especially coupled with Resilience) plays into the theme of Unstoppable Force more than Animalism (which better plays into the theme of Canny Manipulator).

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          • #95
            Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
            So... Anyone else confused by the decision to give Julii Vigor instead of Animalism? I don't really get it. Commanding animals as well as people seemed very thematic, and it created that ambiguity of origin between the Julii, Ventrue, and Gangrel since they were all so similar. I just don't see how Vigor fits in...
            I don't disagree exactly (in the sense that I think your criticism is totally valid, but I don't ascribe to it), but I adore the change. I always wanted them to be just a little more different. I like the idea that they're Warriors and Emperors. They're not predators like the Gangrel, or just power mongers like the Ventrue. They're conquerors, which is very Roman: Veni, vidi, vici. I also just like the double barrel of Resilience/Vigor. Makes them a nice contrast to the Daeva.

            It also helps that, while Second Edition Animalism is fantastic, it's never been my favourite Discipline.

            Or, at least, that's my elevator pitch; I still think your fan version of Second Ed. Julii was the best of a wide field

            Edit: It also fits into that conceit in RfR (and this probably wasn't intentional but I like this interpretation) that the Julii don't see their abilities as "supernatural"; it's just that they're Roman. I tell people what to do and they do it. I crush my enemies with my bare fists. No barbarian can strike me down. Animalism in Second Edition is a lot more overtly supernatural.

            Edit edit: And yeah, it does muddy the canon waters a bit, but it kind of puts lie to the Ventrue and their claims of a storied past. I've always liked the idea that they're a bunch of inbred Gangrel who stole the "Lordly Words" from the Julii.
            Last edited by Yossarian; 06-23-2017, 04:25 PM.



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            • #96
              Originally posted by Yossarian View Post
              I don't disagree exactly (in the sense that I think your criticism is totally valid, but I don't ascribe to it), but I adore the change. I always wanted them to be just a little more different. I like the idea that they're Warriors and Emperors. They're not predators like the Gangrel, or just power mongers like the Ventrue. They're conquerors, which is very Roman: Veni, vidi, vici. I also just like the double barrel of Resilience/Vigor. Makes them a nice contrast to the Daeva.

              It also helps that, while Second Edition Animalism is fantastic, it's never been my favourite Discipline.
              Hmm... I dunno, I think command is a better fit than brute force. I get not liking Animalism, but I would sooner replace it with Majesty, although I wouldn't do that because it's the Daeva signature discipline. And I get the appeal of Vigor but I would sooner replace Resilience with it, although I wouldn't do that either because as mentioned before I like how the Ventrue spread makes them very close to both Ventrue and Gangrel. I lways thought of the three as a triumvirate that represented how blurry the lines of Clan can be.

              Originally posted by Yossarian View Post
              Or, at least, that's my elevator pitch; I still think your fan version of Second Ed. Julii was the best of a wide field
              Thanks! I'll probably use the canon version next time I run Rome, but I'm glad my stop gap solution was well-liked.

              (edit: though I'll probably keep my Detached Curse as their Bane and make the Strigid Curse or something like it their Elder Bane. Weakness to Strix possession is appropriate for the Julii, but doesn't seem like it would impact play as much as the other Clan Banes do.)

              Originally posted by Yossarian View Post
              Edit: It also fits into that conceit in RfR (and this probably wasn't intentional but I like this interpretation) that the Julii don't see their abilities as "supernatural"; it's just that they're Roman. I tell people what to do and they do it. I crush my enemies with my bare fists. No barbarian can strike me down. Animalism in Second Edition is a lot more overtly supernatural.
              Alright, that sold me. I always liked that interpretation (so much so in fact that I carry it over into how Disiplines are viewed in my modern games). One of the most challenging parts of writing my Julii treatment was trying to make Animalism sound convincingly natural. I had to really focus on it as an extension of the obedience thing and downplay the more overt aspects like raising undead familiars. So ok, if Vigor instead of Animalism makes that pill easier to swallow, it's a worthwhile tradeoff for them being less directly connected with Ventrue and Gangrel.

              Originally posted by Yossarian View Post
              Edit edit: And yeah, it does muddy the canon waters a bit, but it kind of puts lie to the Ventrue and their claims of a storied past. I've always liked the idea that they're a bunch of inbred Gangrel who stole the "Lordly Words" from the Julii.
              That was my preferred interpretation as well, but I liked that Ventrue as direct successors to Julii was also a plausible interpretation, even if it was a lie in my head canon. While you've convinced me the change is worth the sacrifice, I do feel something is lost in making it more transparently untrue that Ventrue are direct successors of the Julii.

              On the plus side, I know what 4th Discipline to give my Macellarius update now.
              Last edited by Charlaquin; 06-23-2017, 05:43 PM.


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              • #97
                Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                Thanks! I'll probably use the canon version next time I run Rome, but I'm glad my stop gap solution was well-liked.

                (edit: though I'll probably keep my Detached Curse as their Bane and make the Strigid Curse or something like it their Elder Bane. Weakness to Strix possession is appropriate for the Julii, but doesn't seem like it would impact play as much as the other Clan Banes do.)
                Ooo, I like that idea! I'm going to toss your Julii in the Booklist thread so that others can use it. I did find myself missing the fact that the Lost Clans didn't have Elder Banes, so that is a perfect fit.


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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Second Chances View Post
                  Ooo, I like that idea! I'm going to toss your Julii in the Booklist thread so that others can use it. I did find myself missing the fact that the Lost Clans didn't have Elder Banes, so that is a perfect fit.
                  Thank you very much! For the Akhud, I'd make the permanent diablerie stains their Elder Bane instead of attaching them to Prestantia.
                  Last edited by Charlaquin; 06-23-2017, 08:45 PM.


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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Yossarian View Post
                    Edit edit: And yeah, it does muddy the canon waters a bit, but it kind of puts lie to the Ventrue and their claims of a storied past. I've always liked the idea that they're a bunch of inbred Gangrel who stole the "Lordly Words" from the Julii.
                    Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
                    That was my preferred interpretation as well, but I liked that Ventrue as direct successors to Julii was also a plausible interpretation, even if it was a lie in my head canon. While you've convinced me the change is worth the sacrifice, I do feel something is lost in making it more transparently untrue that Ventrue are direct successors of the Julii.
                    I don't know if the shift from animalism to vigor makes the statement that the Ventrue were descended from the Julii any less true. I think the difference between having a Clan Discipline and having a common discipline is significant, and because of that it's still much more likely that the Ventrue were related to the Julii than to the Gangrel. On the other hand, the fact that they are now as different from the Julii as they are from the Gangrel technically could be a great basis of debate. Or a great way to say they are related to both. "The noble clan Julii had descendents that fell from the grace of from, sullying their blood with the savages" is just as likely an option as "Savages stole the words of power from the Julii" no? :P

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                    • Why are the elders made with this book such a joke? 25-35 Exp for most elders and they are described as vastly superior to neonates is just sad. Really that is just a few dots above starting neonates. And the arcs you can buy, you cant afford and they are severly lacking in disciplines cus non of them buys you any dot there.
                      Really the age table should go. If its an elder just see on the table, if its a rank elder or a mover and shaker and choose the appropriate exp and let the age be a part of the background not really bonud to exp.
                      But why are pc elders worthless? Why have a book about playing them when they cant even be close to how they are described?
                      Last edited by Poseur; 06-24-2017, 05:53 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by Poseur View Post
                        Why are the elders made with this book such a joke? 25-35 Exp for most elders and they are described as vastly superior to neonates is just sad. Really that is just a few dots above starting neonates. And the arcs you can buy, you cant afford and they are severly lacking in disciplines cus non of them buys you any dot there.
                        Really the age table should go. If its an elder just see on the table, if its a rank elder or a mover and shaker and choose the appropriate exp and let the age be a part of the background not really bonud to exp.
                        But why are pc elders worthless? Why have a book about playing them when they cant even be close to how they are described?
                        The XP is as low as it is because it's not retconning what was said in VtR 2e core book. The age table is identical to the numbers given back in Blood and Smoke.

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                        • Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
                          The XP is as low as it is because it's not retconning what was said in VtR 2e core book. The age table is identical to the numbers given back in Blood and Smoke.
                          Two wrongs dosnt make one right.
                          Its just bad your fiction dosnt even closely hold up to the rules.
                          And maybe there was a age-table in blood and smoke but in ny 2ed ut sure dosnt say anything about age in that exp table. Mover and shaker is a describtion , same with Urban legend, not an age group.
                          Last edited by Poseur; 06-24-2017, 07:06 AM. Reason: Spelling. Auto correct in swedish is a joy.

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                          • They also get blood potency 5 by default, so that's an extra 20 experiences right there.

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                            • Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                              They also get blood potency 5 by default, so that's an extra 20 experiences right there.
                              That's not exactly an advantage. It means they start the game requiring kindred blood to feed which means they also have to purchase merits enabling them to feed off other things if they're available in the setting or purchasing powers to enable them to obviate the blood bond, which means they have to buy the attendant pre-requisites for that (covenant status, multiple sorcery ranks, scales etc.) or else quickly end up blood bound to someone.

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                              • Originally posted by tsusasi View Post

                                That's not exactly an advantage. It means they start the game requiring kindred blood to feed which means they also have to purchase merits enabling them to feed off other things if they're available in the setting or purchasing powers to enable them to obviate the blood bond, which means they have to buy the attendant pre-requisites for that (covenant status, multiple sorcery ranks, scales etc.) or else quickly end up blood bound to someone.
                                Kindred blood is required at 6

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