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The Spirit’s Touch and devotion

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  • Marcus
    started a topic The Spirit’s Touch and devotion

    The Spirit’s Touch and devotion

    Hi all,

    the core states:

    A vampire can turn his Beast’s senses on an object or place, uncovering secrets and destroying lies
    so it seems that this power should affect also place like building or room allowing questions like:
    - Who is the last unnatural being came here
    - Have Vidal ever been here? When?
    - Who is died here?/Who killed him?/Why?


    Now, if the above question fit with this power, what is the difference with: ANNALS OF DEATH (Auspex 3 devotion in 1000 years of night)?

    Why shouldn't common Auspex 3 answer the same sample question of that devotion?

    Could anyone clarify me how these two powers work and what are the differences between the legit questions?


  • Yossarian
    replied
    Something that guides me with Auspex is the idea that it's the Beast's subjective view. That doesn't mean that the Storyteller should give false answers, but the information is how your Beast interprets it, rather than an objective truth. The Beast reports what it sees; it doesn't have an omniscient point of view. That's why it gives you weird visions rather than specific verbal answers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tessie
    replied
    You're right. I misremembered.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ever Professional
    replied
    Just checked Auspex three is free.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marcus
    replied
    Originally posted by Tessie View Post

    Auspex 3 costs Vitae so it's not free.
    No, Auspex 3 is free.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tessie
    replied
    Originally posted by Arduras View Post
    They'll ask every rock or blade of grass a question for free in the same scene.
    Auspex 3 costs Vitae so it's not free.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marcus
    replied
    Same problem in mine

    Leave a comment:


  • Arduras
    replied
    Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
    I would answer the first question at the first place only. The person isn't at the subsequent locations to target for Auspex 3 and the Auspex user won't have the vitae reserves to try it.
    And a player trying a douchebag stunt like that at every location would get flooded with information they don't need.
    I once had players do that, they treated every new intersection as a scene and Auspex was free as we just went "where did he go" repeatedly.
    Seriously though, Auspex is completely broken in my group. They'll ask every rock or blade of grass a question for free in the same scene.

    Leave a comment:


  • tsusasi
    replied
    I would answer the first question at the first place only. The person isn't at the subsequent locations to target for Auspex 3 and the Auspex user won't have the vitae reserves to try it.
    And a player trying a douchebag stunt like that at every location would get flooded with information they don't need.
    Last edited by tsusasi; 08-05-2017, 03:52 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Marcus
    replied
    Auspex 3 on a square: which direction took mr. X leaving this place? Could provide an answer?
    And going on, place by place, asking the same question everytime, could allow the mekhet to spot the place where mr. X is gone?

    Leave a comment:


  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Arduras View Post

    Favorite response on this forum so far. Someone who agrees that immersion and fun is more important than meta- and power- gaming.

    Very pleased to be of service.

    But really, let's step back for a moment and consider the perspective of the VtR 2.e writers. They need Auspex--it's a thing, and it's used to uncover secrets and clues as well as deliver psychic powers to vamps. VtM wandered off into the weeds with it by making the various levels of Auspex deliver tiers and flavors of clues (aura sight, for example), and that needs to be compressed down to meet VtR expectations.

    Ok. So someone had the bright idea of just letting the players ask questions. Players ask questions of the GM all the time; stuff like "what does the room look like?" And "why is the body dead?" Well now you have an excuse to ask questions of the Storyteller that hinge on things characters cannot normally perceive. Either the Storyteller is going to exercise the same kind of control and judgement they do when someone asks "do I see a million dollars on the ground at my feet?", or they're going to go *tilt*. Too many go tilt, and then the players pry open that door and ask for a million dollars (using the rules as hard leverage if they can).

    Personally I wish the Auspex section was written more carefully to explicitly arm the Storyteller with more tools to bludgeon players back into line, but CofD is intended for mature audiences, so *shrug*.

    --Khanwulf

    Leave a comment:


  • Arduras
    replied
    Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post



    Right, and to that question (which supernatural power), I'd only give the last one used, and express it in thematic ways rather than reading from notes. The point being that Auspex should not break immersion even when the player is asking meta-questions; the answer is an opportunity to build horror and mystery, instead of reinforcing the fact you're at a table.

    --Khanwulf
    Favorite response on this forum so far. Someone who agrees that immersion and fun is more important than meta- and power- gaming.

    Leave a comment:


  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Arduras View Post

    A crime scene is fine, going "Where is Mr. Rogers" as a question aimed at the entire city is too much. The area is generally huge and not cool. Having it used to straight up ask whatever you want is a bit cheeky too, I've had a character legit just go "what powers does he possess" and boom he knows every discipline, devotion, scale, coil, BP, you name it, for free.
    Which supernatural power I think is an edge case, it works, but you shouldn't be able to just know everything about everyone the city over with one roll.
    Whether or not they used supernatural powers is easy enough to ask, but knowing which powers exactly is too much. That being said, a general feel is okay like what the goal of the power may have been, not just "oh they used Dominate 3, Majesty 3, then Obfuscate 3 in that order."


    Right, and to that question (which supernatural power), I'd only give the last one used, and express it in thematic ways rather than reading from notes. The point being that Auspex should not break immersion even when the player is asking meta-questions; the answer is an opportunity to build horror and mystery, instead of reinforcing the fact you're at a table.

    --Khanwulf

    Leave a comment:


  • Arduras
    replied
    Originally posted by Marcus View Post

    So according to you, auspex 3 used on a crime scene asking:
    1) who killed mr X.
    2) which supernatural power has been used here
    3) what were the intentions of the killer while killing mr. X

    Are legit or too specific?
    A crime scene is fine, going "Where is Mr. Rogers" as a question aimed at the entire city is too much. The area is generally huge and not cool. Having it used to straight up ask whatever you want is a bit cheeky too, I've had a character legit just go "what powers does he possess" and boom he knows every discipline, devotion, scale, coil, BP, you name it, for free.
    Which supernatural power I think is an edge case, it works, but you shouldn't be able to just know everything about everyone the city over with one roll.
    Whether or not they used supernatural powers is easy enough to ask, but knowing which powers exactly is too much. That being said, a general feel is okay like what the goal of the power may have been, not just "oh they used Dominate 3, Majesty 3, then Obfuscate 3 in that order."

    Leave a comment:


  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Marcus View Post
    No sure but, by applying Auspex 2 questions after known the killer identity through Auspex 3. I mean: what is the point of use auspex 2 question with Auspex 3 if you can't uncover secrets of the target?
    I just would like to understand because probably I miss something

    Tsusasi's point is still valid. You're asking questions through Auspex to the room, not to the individual who was in the room at one time. I think keeping the context of the questions in mind helps to bring the power of Auspex back into line with intent. In other words, faced with a murder scene you could:

    * Ask what the murderer looked like
    * Ask if he used supernatural powers
    * Ask who was named in the room
    * Ask what the murderer was feeling (sympathetic impressions)
    * Ask what he smelled/tasted like
    * Ask what numbers were on the murderer (for things such as keys, scraps of paper, things like that--not what numbers were on his cell phone, as that's a question to the phone!)
    * Ask where the murderer was thinking about going next (while in the room)
    * Ask who else was on the mind of the murderer (or victim) in the room
    * Ask what the victim intended to do (if you have the body), or intended (decided) to do in the room (if you don't)

    Basically, use Auspex like a super-investigative tool, not an "I win" button that short-circuits role-playing and hands the Storyteller's notes to the player. That's not fun for anyone, ultimately.

    So, advice? Keep the scope down to what Auspex is targeting at the moment, and go from there. Once the player catches up with the murderer and finds him stuffed halfway through a wood-chipper, then you can ask all kinds of questions of him as an object, including what he intended to do--that would be a sympathetic resonance left behind.

    --Khanwulf

    Leave a comment:

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