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Half-Damned - what do we know?

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  • #91
    How do you pronounce this, anyways?

    Is it 'Damn-peer?'

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    • #92
      Dam-pi-er
      They are Demi (half) vampires.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by YeOfLittleFaith View Post
        The disaster sense did belatedly occur to me, but overall the link sounds a bit... tenuous? The Strix have always had a very grim connection to omens, but that ability is practically a one-off in their bag of wicked tricks that speak much more directly to their nature as shadowy embodiments of cold, alien and envious hungers.
        It was an aspect of their powerset that was explicitly able to be expanded further. "Messing with fate" commonly translates to "supernatural meddling with an entity's reaction to and influence upon the path of least resistance."

        The blood oaths of the Invictus don't sound connected to a broader comprehensible concept of fate, but rather one of the two core ideas in the powers of vampires, that blood calls to blood and those connections have occult significance that irrevocably brings things together
        That's pretty much the whole of almost any given gameline's definition of "fate" — connected things influence each other and benefits come with costs that may be mitigated in certain circumstances. Gaining something comes with losing something else or gaining something different, and your relationships affect your existence within the wider framework of the supernatural world — Changeling makes that the most directly evident, but it's a concept that's present in the wider context of the Chronicles of Darkness in general.

        Mage's understanding of Fate as inclusive of such connections, promises, and the course of destiny and probabilities as one and the same, should probably not be considered of primary importance to something in Vampire The Requiem that concerns itself most of all.
        Rose has pointed out before that Kindred are magical creatures, despite Vampire generally avoiding using that term specifically to avoid conflation with Mage. The clans have curses and occult qualities, blood sorcery works better along a vampire's sympathies, and the Requiem in general plays on as an eerie neighbor to History, that stage of stages that circumstance and civilization provide to corral the Beast.

        "Things are going to (at least 'try' to) Happen" is what the dhampir interaction with "Fate" amounts to, and their Destiny is literally derived from what their vampire parent conceived them for.


        Resident Sanguinary Analyst
        Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Live Bait View Post
          Dam-pi-er
          They are Demi (half) vampires.
          So why not dampire?

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          • #95
            Originally posted by nofather View Post

            So why not dampire?
            Because it’s not right. It’s Damn-Peir. You were right. Source: https://youtu.be/y4rQvbkqgR8. Other terms for the same thing are: dhampyre (Damn-pi-er), dhamphir (Damn-fear), and dhampyr (same as the original). So really what ever you feel like if you use the right spelling. Source: Wikipedia’s first source.

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            • #96
              It's not "dampire" because "dampire" looks stupid. It sounds like a wet vampire.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Elfive View Post
                It sounds like a wet vampire.
                Which is why I asked how it was pronounced. I was guessing they didn't decide 'lets make it look ambiguously foreign, but sound silly.'

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                • #98
                  So I gave a quick look to the book. Looks nice. Haven't expected getting a new Lost Clan in it. I also wonder on how it looks like the Lance's view of Dhampirs in the book is 180 degrees than what was presented in Wicked Dead. I also kinda miss the whole "Dhampirs are being born from a union of a vampire and mortal, no matter biological compatibility- cause occult, fuck science", but it is not something which would require me to work extra hard to change. Still, I am waiting to give it a more, in depth read.


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                  • #99
                    My skepticism with that degree of equivalency, Satchel, is that Vampire The Requiem has only approached the topic through the idea of it essentially being easier to affect things that are connected through the symbolic substance that empowers and feeds Kindred, all else secondary because even if one can extrapolate the wider symbolism, this does not mean every game cares about it in the same way, nor should they. This is not to the exclusion of vampires being magical, because of course they are, but blood sympathy has not been presented as relating to the more ubiquitous meanings of fate up to this point, nor been greately suggestive of that bereft of a deeper analysis.

                    I'm splitting hairs at this point though, so I apologize for going on a possibly inappropriate estimation of the content.

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                    • Odd question, but having only just finished the dhampir chapter in the first quick readthrough, I appear to have missed something.

                      Namely, what happens when dhampir is Embraced (aside from Doom upon the Sire, if the Half-Damned wills it)? Obviously you add the Vampire template, but certain things (merits, twists, themes, malisons, destiny) are a matter to consider. Dropping the third anchor, and Sanctity of merits covers some of it to be sure, but...


                      Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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                      • Originally posted by YeOfLittleFaith View Post
                        My skepticism with that degree of equivalency, Satchel, is that Vampire The Requiem has only approached the topic through the idea of it essentially being easier to affect things that are connected through the symbolic substance that empowers and feeds Kindred, all else secondary because even if one can extrapolate the wider symbolism, this does not mean every game cares about it in the same way, nor should they.
                        It is a known quality of vampires that the themes and trends of their nature affect and are affected by their environment and associates, either through the Vitae or through the connections and vessels that contain and convey it. This isn't incompatible with vampires caring about how people behave and how the world changes because of it — quite the opposite, even if it seldom uses the word "fate" outside of esoteric contexts.

                        Disciplines and their less refined roots can affect minds and the material world, and blood sorcery like that which most commonly empowers a vampire to spawn a dhampir expands that influence considerably. The circumstances of a dhampir's birth are stamped into their psychology and their powers engage with "fate" through connections and prediction as readily as Auspex and oaths do — Twists and Malisons work through conscious and unconscious exertion and plain blood-sacrifice, and the Destiny of a half-vampire is a piece of their mental makeup borne out of their being made for a purpose and growing stronger by engaging with that fact.

                        It's the prosaic form of "Fate" with a side possibility of magic powers that relate to things people usually think of in regard to the mystical form of the concept — dhampir can read the future in entrails and prophetic dreams and declare themselves the nemeses and blood-siblings of chosen subjects in their more magical modes of activity, and their less deliberate abilities manifest as themed alignment with supernatural powers and dreadful circumstances based on their parent's clan and their subsequent development.

                        It's fate in the sense of hard and easy choices presenting themselves to the supernaturally-touched, specifically as adjacent to the curse-heavy nature of vampirism. It's fate in the same sense that vampires are doomed to grow apart from humanity and become weird monsters in the night as that happens. Being born into a certain degree of bad luck and bad blood generally calls your lot in life into question in a way that dying hungry doesn't. This is something the children of vampires have to deal with more directly than vampires themselves do, because "bad things happen around me" is a little harder to brush off when you making them happen on purpose or in an atavistic fugue is an excuse that your dad has and you don't. This is fate in the sense of Circumstances Somewhat Beyond Your Control, as viewed by a type of person who quite likely has an eye on the entire class of inveterate supernatural meddlers who made them as they are.


                        Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                        Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                        • I would like to retort to the new information you're giving me, but I'm still working with incomplete context, so citing X and Y examples of how they engage with the magicness of blood in the original topic puts me a bit on the spot! This is why it's not wise to argue extensively without a more complete grasp on the topic.

                          I can't say it is terribly convincing to reference increasingly figurative interpretations of fate where it shapes the life of a Dhampir though. That's more distracting than the part where you point out Twists and Malisons work through blood-sacrifice and they have powers based on their relation to the clan of their vampiric parent and asserting bonds through relations of blood as a mystic medium. The former is diverging to very general kinds of statement that you could apply to any supernatural with difficulties inherent by biology or circumstance, and the latter is explaining how they actually engage with one of the two main motifs of Kindred supernatural power.

                          For that it's worth, I appreciate the time spent working to disabuse me of incomplete notions, but I don't think I can add anything else at this point in time.
                          Last edited by YeOfLittleFaith; 11-30-2017, 08:59 PM.

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                          • Originally posted by YeOfLittleFaith View Post
                            I can't say it is terribly convincing to reference increasingly figurative interpretations of fate where it shapes the life of a Dhampir though.
                            I'll just narrow it down to this: What are you proposing to be a non-figurative interpretation of fate?

                            A character who lives with weird shitty luck due to being born from the plans and loins of a monster is going to have a different perspective on words like "destiny" than a character whose conscious existence is undergirded with desperation held at bay through stolen life and the endurance of the unliving.

                            "Fate" is an abstract concept that generally manifests in these dice-based storytelling games as narrative elements and/or changes to the default dice mechanics as appropriate to the supernatural force involved, and those manifestations are as indistinguishable from mundane coincidence to the casual observer in the game as those circumstances would be outside the framework of a story-game.

                            In Vampire's case, those manifestations largely have to do with the living and the hungry dead that depend on them for sustenance and context, which looks different from one side of the fangs than the other. The focus does not have to exist across the entire gameline to be appropriate language for a specific phenomenon.


                            Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                            Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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                            • The idea of Fate as a discrete force that determines or influences what is likely to happen, which in this case looks over or relates to Dhampiri in some upkeeping manner that is tied to them having some of the powers they do. This is the suggestion Leliel's choice of words makes in the post that gave rise to my questioning.

                              It is natural that someone with a life entrapped by circumstances beyond their control is going to have a particular view of destiny and predestination than people who have better control over their monstrous natures; that having different perspectives on those concepts determined by the limitations and afflictions of your life is not limited to Dhampiri in the Chronicles of Darkness (or even limited to supernatural creatures) is why I was claiming the train of thought was distracting from the point.

                              The way the abstract notion of fate manifests in games is not overly complicated to understand, and of course it's going to be poorly understood as distinct from mundance coincidence to someone who doesn't have the awareness or knowledge to be able to suppose otherwise. The thing that was leaving me scratching my head was not a lack of understanding that things work like this. I was finding it strange because this post seems to describe the influence of fate on a Dhampir in a very non-figurative way, and attribute some qualities of their existence to it (irrespective of whether or not they know this as the reader does), as opposed to anything more directly relevant to the motifs of Kindred.

                              And now I'm realizing that may have been my misunderstanding in reading Leliel literally. I can't really excuse myself if that's the case.

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                              • Originally posted by YeOfLittleFaith View Post
                                The thing that was leaving me scratching my head was not a lack of understanding that things work like this. I was finding it strange because this post seems to describe the influence of fate on a Dhampir in a very non-figurative way, and attribute some qualities of their existence to it (irrespective of whether or not they know this as the reader does), as opposed to anything more directly relevant to the motifs of Kindred.
                                Yeah, no, Lel was being poetic in roughly the same way the chapter is about the fact that dhampir tend to pick up protections from and affinities for supernatural powers and natural circumstances that align with the themes of their parent's clan, that player use of Twists does not always translate to character invocation of those powers in the fiction, and that the basic Universal Dhampir Powers package includes getting Omen Sensitivity and Thief of Fate for free as part of the same umbrella quality that gives them Destiny as a weird hybrid Aspiration/Anchor Trait. Being a dhampir means having kind of a complicated life in a way that's easy to analogize to the Kindred's paranoid musings about whether the Curse has an agenda.


                                Resident Sanguinary Analyst
                                Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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