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  • Idea: Coil of owls.

    a rough idea just had for a coil trying to mimic the strix.

    2 ways I see to do it.

    one is to just gairi like drea powers.

    other, is to allow somewhat safer posession.

    which do you think is better?

    note that a Dragon who failed the opposed roll would probaly be really, and truly screwed.



  • #2
    Ideas?
    Those who study this heretical Coil believe that the Birds of Dis represent the next evolutionary step beyond Vampirism. Adherents strive to shed their physical shells and become closer in mind, body, and deed to the malevolent entities known as the Strix. Some have even attained a measure of success while others fall rapidly to their Beasts or are rumored to suffer fates far worse than this.
    Unsurprisingly many students of this Coil attempt to keep their pursuits hidden, as Kindred society in general is unlikely to hold favorable views of their own kind emulating an entity that is so effectively... antagonistic towards the Kindred.

    It could make a great NPC plot line but the right kind of game could make it work with PCs too.

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    • #3
      Character ideas:

      The Mad (– or is it?) – Who believes the Owls are the purest form of existence. He is ever closer to the Draugr state, but we won’t see it. He is so close to be free from this debased state, so close now…
      The Desperate – He knows they are coming. He knows they will destroy every Kindred in the domain. He cannot run fast enough, so the only answer is… through?
      The Mystic – Owls are inmune to fire, hunger and sunlight: they are masters of their needs, not the other way around. They are the alfa and the omega, the Door that Which will Open in Darkness, the Undoing.

      Imaginery:

      A hollowed vampire, his skin so thin that shifts and hangs from places it should not, the distinct shape of an Owl creature clearly flowing under it with each movement. After finishing the ritual, it falls on its knees, and opening his mouth to the sky he lets a piercing shriek that carries with it all the darkness that it has become. His former body collapses on the ground, empty as a shock puppet. Night wings fade in the forest shadows.


      Userhat Aegpts Vlrs. Coren "Ojos de Fuego". Mithrael. Menehet.

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      • #4
        Think the emulating the Strix, or allowing somewhat safer possesion, is better?

        Tenatively thinking that the first is better use the safer possesion thing as a scale?


        Comment


        • #5
          "Somewhat safer possession" is a terrible idea. I don't mean terrible for the OP to have thought it up, I mean it's a terrible idea for whatever Dragon is harebrained enough to attempt it - which means of course someone will.

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          • #6
            I agree, a failed roll... I shudder to think of what the Strix would do, to a Dragon wanting to keep them imprisoned within as a "battery"

            Thoughts on it working best as a scale?

            think a failure in such an attempt would make a good story arc?

            or even a sucess, and the local strix wanting to "Avenge this insult"?
            Last edited by Prince of the Night; 09-10-2017, 07:53 PM.


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            • #7
              I think you need two paths: one that seeks to emulate the Strix and thereby shed the weaknesses of the vampiric form and nature. ("Oh! Such purity in malevolence! Such adamantine strength before the Light! It mus be mine!")

              The other seeks to subsume the Strix, consuming them to create either a symbiotic relationship or a form of the ultimate predator--the True Apex. After all, the existence of the Strix gives lie to the idea that vampires are apex predators over man... predators, yes, but only another step toward... something?

              Anyway, this train of investigation is interesting as I have an NPC that might be entangled with the Strix in some fashion or other like this.

              --Khanwulf

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              • #8
                I personally like the "trying to mimic the Strix" idea better.

                Mostly because Strix aren't common enough to learn how to resist their possession, and the first vampire that tried likely wouldn't survive long enough to finish.

                The first option is still useful even if there aren't any Strix around.

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                • #9
                  I'll note this whole concept is heretical for Ordo Dracul practices because of the prohibition against seeking infernal help because by vampire standard's Strix are pretty demonic.

                  That said some vampire somewhere is going to be win the Darwin Award or worse.

                  The Coil for this concept is a bit difficult. I think it make be better to make a collection of scales that represent testing on Strix victims.

                  One idea is to use a Vitae-infused corpse (not Revenant nor Kindred) as a Strix trap, possibly by using acupuncture needles through Chakra, allow the Owl to be starved to oblivion or negotiated with.

                  Another could be experiments on Ghosts produced via certain types of death and mystically manipulated Vitae to produce a Ghost that devour Strix.

                  Yet another idea could be a scale the result of experiments on stolen Reliquaries from the Lance that has some weapon against the Strix.

                  Or experiments that cause the vampire's body to be toxic to the strix, possible via use of the weaknesses Strix have which the vampire doesn't.

                  Originally posted by Maina View Post
                  I personally like the "trying to mimic the Strix" idea better.

                  Mostly because Strix aren't common enough to learn how to resist their possession, and the first vampire that tried likely wouldn't survive long enough to finish.

                  The first option is still useful even if there aren't any Strix around.
                  I agree if you want an actual Owl Coil this would be the way to go, with the above as possible Scales of that coil.

                  What are the Strix's abilities that would be emulated and how would they fit together in a coil format are the next questions.

                  Appearing as if you're already Strix possessed seems like a good base ability, as triggering the Loner Bane and seeming as not a valid target for possession (because it appears someone else is already home, so to speak) are handy and not too overpowered. Also flashing yellow eyes at vampires is a good way to scare them or get them to kill you. -bluff- Go ahead strike me down, but if you do I'll be wearing you as my next meat-suit, or we can negotiate, your choice... -bluff-
                  Last edited by Pale_Crusader; 09-11-2017, 02:36 PM.


                  “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” ~ Aristophanes
                  "Virescit Vulnere Virtus" ~ Stewart Clan Motto

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                  • #10
                    So idea ? send false messages as first coil.


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                      So idea ? send false messages as first coil.

                      A "false" Strix presence possibly the with effect of Owl Eyes to go with it, (After all the yellow eye are the major sign of the Strix, and some would say "partial" instead of "false", if they knew the end result of walking the Coils of this particular Ouroboros) the Taint of Life being a good candidate for the Second Coil, possibly doing the Gathering Cry as the third coil.

                      Depending on the metaphysics of your setting is where coils 4 and 5 get interesting, I'd have vampires shed their Personal, Clan, and Bloodline Banes at Coil 4 and would instead have them Gain Uncommon Banes as Strix do based on their Blood Potency which shall translate to Shadow Potency if they progress further. Mastering the 5th Coil means shedding Humanity, Mask and Dirge completely in exchange for a Vice as they become a Strix possessing their original body, thus meaning the destruction of that body doesn't mean their Final Death and basically be transformed into a Strix for Common Banes as well. They should also gain traits appropriate to their Strix-hood, like Dread Powers (Be sure to account for their Disciplines with Dread Powers slots) and shed non-Strix Vampire Traits. Note they should gain the benefit of Embracing Embodiments on page 201 for their Original Body if they don't have a high enough Shadow Potency to Possess themselves.

                      How would I have a vampire learn this Coil?

                      One possibility is a special ritualized Diablerizing of Revenants that have been possessed by Strix after the proper meditative study to harness and shape the forces. Why Revenants? Because their Vitae doesn't have the overpowering influence of a Clan and thus the residue left by the Strix's presence can be isolated and harvested. The game design reason being Revenants bring more chaos into the research because they can not be reliably made, as opposed to Kindred. More chaos in the research, more opportunity for story-hooks...

                      By the way as I describe the Coil, the resulting Strix wouldn't actually have the Coil, the Coil itself being a marker of the Kindred's evolution along the path of becoming a Strix.

                      One last parting thought: A Strix that comes into existence already with a body, oh how envious shall the other Strix be...
                      Last edited by Pale_Crusader; 09-11-2017, 06:49 PM.


                      “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” ~ Aristophanes
                      "Virescit Vulnere Virtus" ~ Stewart Clan Motto

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Becoming a Strix possesing the original body, seems, wrong for the 5th coil, as while they may study the Strix, and seek to emulate them in some ways, it doesnt follow that they seek to emulate them in all ways.

                        I do agree the coil would be considered VERY Heretical

                        Idealology aside it would be prosecuted more harshly then the Coil of Ziva

                        because, it could draw the attention of the Strix to the vampire doing the research

                        not something I think any remotely sane vampire wants.

                        Ziva can be looked the other way to, if a handful of followers achieve the princes Recognition, they might become part of the core group of some domains local Ordo Dracul Covenant, if thats what the ST wants to do.

                        I doubt the coil of owls will be able to do that as the prince would also censure them, the Circle and Sanctum alike would decrie it as blasphemy.
                        Last edited by Prince of the Night; 09-11-2017, 08:29 PM.


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                          Becoming a Strix possessing the original body, seems, wrong for the 5th coil... -snip-
                          I agree it seems wrong because it is a cheat; In a mere five coils it objectively reaches a stated goal of the Ordo Dracul which is to transcend the vampiric state. Strix are in a meaningful sense vampiric gods (little 'g'); they are immortal in ways that put even vampires to shame, they are the boogieman of kindred, the weakest of which can still terrify even the most powerful kindred, they lack the struggle to remain sapient which is represented by Humanity, and are free to do anything they want without fear of guilt or conscious. Because they are out of context problems for the other splats and can easily just leave if they even suspect something that could adversely affect them, they are spooky shadowy figures that can cause damage and leave to cause horror to their wicked shadowy heart's delight.

                          Given the reward, the risks are not unreasonable. It is completely sane to want to be a Strix, it's just morally reprehensible

                          The main downside of being a Strix is the lack of a body for all of its sensations, and if you start with a body and work to make sure you can get others later, that isn't much of a downside, and in fact being assured of continued existence past your corporeal existence in a way that can still affect and interact with the world is a serious upside.

                          I'd say there would be a whole slew of vampires eager to become Strix if they were sure their identities would remains intact and it wasn't difficult, and that makes this whole thing devastating to the setting unless it'd be really difficult and then it'd be hated and feared because a peer you've been in petty squabbles with or childer you've mistreated could become capable of turning into a monster several orders of magnitudes worse than you.

                          Actually with how wonderfully tempting this is I'd possibly up the ante of the requirements, ritualized diablerizing of Revenants which were previously possessed by a Strix whom were new born infant that are more than two lunar months past birth but less than three lunar months old. That steepens the curve of the moral event horizon and makes such a thing specifically difficult to obtain to the point it'd pretty much need to be arranged. The in game metaphysics as to why? The blood of the infant's mother would have been replaced by the infant's blood at that point and still have not developed to much interference from life experience tainting the vessel, and only the vessels own pure innocent blood can since it properly. Also if you're going to be a being of evil and darkness this is a way to initiate yourself into being total evil.


                          All that said: What I am suggesting is not a "neat new power", I am suggesting something that is Applied Phlebotinum designed to power the plot devices of a whole Chronicle, like a nuclear reactor powering a whole city, not a gas-generator you can haul in your truck.

                          Alternate idea: Have a Tengu variant that uses these tropes: Embodiment of Virtue, Heroic Will, Thanatos Gambit, Obi Wan Moment, Death-Activated Superpowers

                          Then have the Tengu fighting the Strix! In fact you could have the Tengu be the result of an ancient Covenant with meditative moral-based quasi-Ordo Eastern Alchemical practices/beliefs.
                          Last edited by Pale_Crusader; 09-12-2017, 04:54 PM.


                          “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” ~ Aristophanes
                          "Virescit Vulnere Virtus" ~ Stewart Clan Motto

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                          • #14
                            And because a Dragon wants to emulate the Strixes power, doesnt mean he's allied with them, working with or for them, or worships them, and doesnt preclude working against them. just noting "Hey they have 2 or 3 advantages we dont and are so close to us... so... lets bridge the gap a bit"


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                            • #15
                              00
                              Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                              And because a Dragon wants to emulate the Strixes power, doesn't mean he's allied with them, working with or for them, or worships them, and doesn't preclude working against them. just noting "Hey they have 2 or 3 advantages we dont and are so close to us... so... lets bridge the gap a bit"
                              Very true, and also very true among Strix themselves. I'll cite the Loner Uncommon Bane and the Strix-Hunter as VtR 2nd Ed as prime examples.

                              For the Alternate Idea Tengu are no less monsters from the kindred perspective, perhaps more so because somehow they seem to have moral high ground against the kindred, as opposed to the Strix. I mean Kindred are monsters after all and possessing them and stopping them from causing harm is virtuous, so yeah, I'd expect kindred to be frightened of tengu for different reasons than strix.

                              Also the Tengu idea could have a path where they sacrifice Humanity in particularly virtuous ways, becoming more frighteningly moral than human.

                              In fact, Tengu could 100% explain VII. There is a scary thought...


                              Questions:
                              Is your intent to make a power set balanced with the rest of the game that can be reasonable collected without overturning the setting?
                              Alternatively are you you looking to craft something to power plot devices which drive stories forward because they are outside the normal spectrum of power/scope?

                              I'll note Strix are written in a way Idigam for Forsaken are written, as problems that defy all the humdrum normal solutions within reach of characters within the setting, forcing conflict outside the setting standard. Vampire is more about paranoia so vampire possessing boogieman make sense for that role, Forsaken is about spiritual knowledge/combat savagery/maintaining ecosystems and Idigam are Godzilla scale combat foes and strange unknown powers outside normal spirit knowledge, fundamentally shaking spirit ecosystems/economies in their wake. The nature of the Strix is why my suggestion presume the second question is yes and not the first, but knowing your intent would let tailor my suggestions better.
                              Last edited by Pale_Crusader; 09-12-2017, 05:48 PM.


                              “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” ~ Aristophanes
                              "Virescit Vulnere Virtus" ~ Stewart Clan Motto

                              Comment

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