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Alternate names for clans (those taken from masquerade specifically)

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  • Alternate names for clans (those taken from masquerade specifically)

    Context:
    So in the game i've just started one of my players expressed the desire to play a king of thieves sort of character. He stated as inspirations for his character Varis from Game of Thrones and the Beggar King in John Wick 2. I really like the concept and okayed it and when asked what clan of vampire he wants his character to belong to he goes for gangrel. Now any concept can fit in any of the clan. The clan chosen just mean that a few themes are gonna be put in highlights more than others. In the case of the gangrel i talk with the player if he is interested in exploring themes of savagery (perhaps how he rules his thieves/beggars court) and loss of control. He tells me that he really isn't interested in those themes and that he chose the gangrel clan only to have animalism so as to create a information network with rats, bats and pigeons. He also said that he wants his character to learn dominate as early as possible. So i inform him that there is another great option that both include animalism and dominate as in clan discipline and that is the ventrue. The player looked very confused at that, and he also said that ventrue wouldn't work since they would not embrace an orphan or someone very low on the societal pole (especially in a dark age setting). The confusion, and the use of the term dark age, made me realize that this is my one player who has prior experience with Masquerade and this must've colored how he looked at clans like the ventrue and the gangrel.

    So that brought to my mind that maybe i should try and change the names of the Ventrue, Gangrel and Nosferatu to see if that dispel some of the confusion. The name ventrue really doesnt bring to my mind someone that is commanding, especially since in french (which we all speak at my table) ventrue just means big-bellied. In a way i feel that even the word clan isn't entirely fitting as clans in Requiem are much less united and ... clannish than in Masquerade.

    Did you guys encounter similar issues and have you thought of alternate names ? Or is it entirely in my mind?

  • Live Bait
    replied
    This outcome amused me slightly, enjoy the game.

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  • Maitrecorbo
    replied
    Originally posted by nofather View Post
    This might be relevant, it's about how player characters may or may not perceive labels.

    The origin thread is basically about the same topic as well.
    Thanks for showing me this thread. I had not seen it and it is nice to see that it was not just in my mind.

    As for the player. We had a game session Friday and i was all set up to present him with as much information as i could only for him to tell he didn't want any of it. He just wants to play a gangrel and isnt interested in ventrue (masquerade, requiem or otherwise).
    ...
    And it's just fine really. People play what they think they'll have the most fun playing and it is possible that although i see a stereotypical ventrue in nearly everything the character does, the player may have something in mind that i am simply not seeing.

    I don't like that it keeps bothering me a bit (like an itch that i cannot scratch). But thats on me, not on the player and i am not letting that affect the game he's playing. He already said that he is having a lot of fun so far.

    As for the changed clan names. I used the new one in the game and i used the terms curse and damnations instead of the word clan. It worked quite well and they had a nice flow i think. i especially like going with 'the curse of the Lares' instead of saying 'clan Lares'.

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  • nofather
    replied
    This might be relevant, it's about how player characters may or may not perceive labels.

    Originally posted by Rose Bailey View Post
    ‚ÄčA typical young vampire knows his clan by his family. To use the terms the Daeva prefer, he has a father and probably a grandmother, possibly some brothers and sisters, and cousins of varying distances. How that family views itself is dealt with in the clanbooks.

    Clan is most likely to manifest for a young vampire in his earliest friends and contacts. Not just people who he can turn to for help, but who feel, because of some level of trust or obligation, that they can turn to him. Covenant plays more of a role in the politics of the Damned, but clan is something you can always fall back on... or fall back into. To oversimplify, if clan is family, covenant is like church or political party. Also, keep in mind that there's not a solid boundary between the two for the Kindred the way there is for us. Being raised Lancea et Sanctum can seem like as much of a familial obligation as hustling for grandmother's "organization."
    The origin thread is basically about the same topic as well.
    Last edited by nofather; 10-22-2017, 04:16 PM.

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  • Live Bait
    replied
    Thanks, so less clan culture than they'll be use to, more leeway for fringe consents.

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  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Live Bait View Post

    Thanks both, anything else I should know?
    Well I alluded to some points in my earlier post here, however the key thing to pass on to a Masquerade player is "this is your vampire, reimagined."

    And... it's kinda a big deal. I ignored VtR for 10 years+ because I didn't need an "edgy remix" and some of the assumptions->mechanics in 1e were unhelpful; but really I didn't pay close enough attention to understand the game. The use of terms common in Masquerade for things that are different or different in application creates a learning hurdle that has literally produced this thread.

    So in addition to the clan differences, Masquerade players are going to trip over the Disciplines being limited to 5 dots, the Blood Potency mechanics (no Generation!), and a few other finer points. Then there are systems such as Conditions/Beats that they can pick up more easily. The may wonder about Covenants and the Camarilla--you can tell them that Covenants play a kind of role to clans in Masquerade (political status clubs) plus factions. The biggest change there, however, is that the modeling of globe-spanning cold-war blocks is gone, so all conflict between Covenants is local.

    Just like the politics.

    --Khanwulf

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  • nofather
    replied
    All the clans already have some nicknames. Nosferatu are Haunts, Daeva Serpents, Ventrue Lords, Gangrel Savages, and Mekhet Shadows.

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  • Live Bait
    replied
    Originally posted by Gallus View Post
    I would tell them forget VtM, they are not the same clans and to actually read the clan descriptions.

    Originally posted by Elfive View Post
    One thing that might trip masqueraders up is that requiem Nosferatu are scary, not ugly. In requiem you could have one that looks completely normal but, like, constantly cries blood or something.
    Thanks both, anything else I should know?

    Leave a comment:


  • Maitrecorbo
    replied
    And it could be fun for characters meeting diverging opinion for where does the curse comes from (with spanish ventrue having a different name than say venetian ventrue. That will increase my research load... which i am very okay with ).
    One of the thing i am working on for my setting is that if you dont belong to a particular bloodline you get a ''common'' family name derived from your clan. So I've been researching words and names in venetian for that. Tho i dont plan to have a particular clan have a special origin in venice.

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  • Shawarbaaz
    replied
    Originally posted by tsusasi View Post
    If the Ventrue in your setting trace their immediate ancestry to a single or pair of Ventrue, you could have their name derived from THAT character. One of my defunct characters in one setting was a Ventrue who's grandsire established a vampire presence in the city and all but two (Ventrue) vampires traced their origins to her or her twin. Subsequent Ventrue were usually referred to by others as that surname instead of Ventrue even if they weren't descended from either twin.
    This works. It can also be applied to the place the first Ventrue in the region come from. If he or she came from Central Spain, they might be dubbed the Castilians in that area, for example.

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  • Elfive
    replied
    One thing that might trip masqueraders up is that requiem Nosferatu are scary, not ugly. In requiem you could have one that looks completely normal but, like, constantly cries blood or something.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gallus
    replied
    I would tell them forget VtM, they are not the same clans and to actually read the clan descriptions.

    Leave a comment:


  • Live Bait
    replied
    I apologise for being slightly off topic but as someone with little understanding of Masqurade I would like an understanding of what misconceptions I might need to account for if I need to introduce someone to Requiem. I know that Ventrue replaced Presence (now Magisty) with Animalism and Nosferatu replaced Animalism with Nightmare but beyond that I wouldn't know how to account for their assumptions.

    Leave a comment:


  • Khanwulf
    replied
    Originally posted by Maitrecorbo View Post
    Context:
    ... this is my one player who has prior experience with Masquerade and this must've colored how he looked at clans like the ventrue and the gangrel.
    I assume as well that you've pointed out to the player that there is no low/high clan dichotomy at work, and that the "clans" are essentially divided up according to iconic vampiric roles. As such the Gangrel are the wildlings and savages, close to nature and their Beast, and the Ventrue are "those who rule"--and *what* they rule, or where they're from to do that, is essentially unimportant to the fact that they rule.

    Meanwhile the Daeva are "those who seduce", Nosferatu are "those who are scary" and Mekhet are "those unseen who know secrets".

    The reduction from 13 primary clans to 5 in VtR means that the clans define characters only very broadly, with much more wiggle-room within them. It's sub-clan bloodlines that start to get into the territory that Masquerade would call "clan" previously.

    Hope this helps,
    --Khanwulf

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  • Khanwulf
    replied
    On the question of using "Clan"... you might substitute "Tribe" as being appropriate and ancient. The usual derivations were Tribe -> Clan -> Family, where Tribes could and did identify themselves upward into a people-group such as the Avars, Lombards, Britons and the like. Clan would then represent a lineage going back and/or a regional affiliation of a single tribe. ("The Tribe of Ventrue of the Clan of Rochester, Family of Uthred the Unready, Childe of Sandra the Harpy")

    My sire and I against the Family
    The Family against the Clan
    The Clan against the Tribe
    The Tribe against the Darkness

    --Khanwulf

    Edit PS: You could even drop "clan" entirely in favor of identifying bloodline, if you wished.
    Last edited by Khanwulf; 10-19-2017, 02:57 PM.

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