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How many Kindred to run Domain?

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  • How many Kindred to run Domain?

    How many prepared vampire NPCs I need to smoothly run particular Domain? I do not ask here on how many char sheets I should prepare, but more as what amount of Kindred NPCs concepts is needed to run smoothly each city society, to easy take out all the characters I need to in each story. In other words - What are most needed 'jobs' in each vampire city to make it feel as 'living' community and not be stucked on all the 'Alice owns the Bob fealty, because Charles is...' kind of things.

    I run a Werewolf game in modern Uppsala open for crossovers. Players ( wrongly ) assumes that enemy is vampire, so I need to show Kindred population of city there. I just wonder how many NPCs ideas I should prepare to run it there. The general number of vampires I have figured now

    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    Thinking more on settings, I probably go with spread of Christianity resulting with change in Sweden supernatural communities from werewolf-leaded to vampire-leaded. With christanization of those terrains, people turn away from pagan faiths - and by this from Spirits - so werewolves has less sway in local Wolf-Blooded population ( and it's instant peaks from encounters with Spirits ), leading to decline in their numbers over years. On the other hand, Invictus and Lancea Sanctum marriage seems as perfect result of 'civilization' of those Northern lands.

    With modern Uppsala being Christian center of Sweden, this would lead to very high number of Lancea Sanctum vampires and only few werewolves, following Old Ways. ( At least on the outside, but it's a chronicle twist. ). As Uppsala is also scholars center, I think that local population of mages is in order. Running numbers we get like 750 people 'touched' by supernatural and circa 190 on general major monsters population. Using about half of monsters populations on Big Three, we got like 95 to spread - saying like about 50 vampires in Uppsala ( with probably half in Church structures as Lancea Sanctum ), 25 mages around University and a like and just our 20 werewolves practicing traditions of the People - we end, really, with literal 4 packs in city ( per 5 Uratha each ).
    Bonus question: Are there Muslim related vampires Clans or Bloodlines? Story resolves on things preying on Islam community in city, so vampire NPC from this background would good to even pose as false perpetrator - and patsy that Protestant Prince-Bishop do want to sacrifice easily for die.
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 10-20-2017, 11:23 PM.


    My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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  • #2
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    How many prepared vampire NPCs I need to smoothly run particular Domain?
    It depends on how large and organized the domain is, and the individual vampires in charge, as well as their organizations. Montreal is ruled by a single vampire with no known allies.

    What are most needed 'jobs' in each vampire city to make it feel as 'living' community
    You have a ruler, or group of rulers. Generally they'll have minions, usually other vampires, who will do the grunt work, being enforcers. Any vampire organization within the domain is going to also have a leader, or at least a representative, providing they're an open organization and not something illegal or secret. Sometime there are side jobs, like harpies, who spread the word about laws or new vampires, and may be lackeys of the ruler or independent parties or aligned somewhere else. Also depending on how controlling the ruler is, different parts of the domain might have different sub-rulers, like vassals, who could have their own micro-hierarchy.

    Here are some images from Damnation City showing a couple of the different dynamics you can have set up.



    This is a more rigid hierarchy.




    Bonus question: Are there Muslim related vampires Clans or Bloodlines? Story resolves on things preying on Islam community in city, so vampire NPC from this background would good to even pose as false perpetrator - and patsy that Protestant Prince-Bishop do want to sacrifice easily for die.
    There's the Taifa bloodline.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
      How many prepared vampire NPCs I need to smoothly run particular Domain?
      It depends on how large and organized the domain is, and the individual vampires in charge, as well as their organizations. Montreal is ruled by a single vampire with no known allies.

      What are most needed 'jobs' in each vampire city to make it feel as 'living' community
      You have a ruler, or group of rulers. Generally they'll have minions, usually other vampires, who will do the grunt work, being enforcers. Any vampire organization within the domain is going to also have a leader, or at least a representative, providing they're an open organization and not something illegal or secret. Sometime there are side jobs, like harpies, who spread the word about laws or new vampires, and may be lackeys of the ruler or independent parties or aligned somewhere else. Also depending on how controlling the ruler is, different parts of the domain might have different sub-rulers, like vassals, who could have their own micro-hierarchy.

      Here are some images from Damnation City showing a couple of the different dynamics you can have set up.



      This is a more rigid hierarchy.




      Bonus question: Are there Muslim related vampires Clans or Bloodlines? Story resolves on things preying on Islam community in city, so vampire NPC from this background would good to even pose as false perpetrator - and patsy that Protestant Prince-Bishop do want to sacrifice easily for die.
      There's the Taifa bloodline.

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      • #4
        Thanks, NoFather! I read the Damnation Cities few years back now and I understand general idea of it. But I ask on ST advice - I'm not Vampire ST, do not need to prepare whole NPC setting of Kindred, whole cloth.

        So I will rephrase my question - How many lowest number of prepared vampire NPCs I need to smoothly run particular Domain in background, for looking as society of city? Preparing whole diagramsof NPCs relations was one of the things that scared me from running Requiem in the first place.

        For now I undestand I need:
        1. Ruler - In my example, it's Prince Archbishop
        2. Ruler's closest allies - Probably some Lancea Sanctum version of Sherif and Seneshal positions.
        3. Elders Council - or equivalent that Lancea Sanctum likes.
        4. 'Patsy Muslim vampire' - For the plotline at hand.
        5. Possibly Sire of Muslim Kindred?
        6. Iron Master's vampire informant?

        What else NPCs I would need to prepare to run plotline smoothly?
        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 10-21-2017, 03:11 AM.


        My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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        • #5
          Since the vampires are a tangential thing, you wouldn't need to stat the ruler or rulers, you could just have an overall feeling for them, like 'shadowy council of tyrants,' 'war-loving follower of old ways,' or 'foreign element looking to dominate region,' that would only come into play if the werewolves really escalate things. Some names, too, for the vampires and organizations in case some werewolf powers come up that point towards mentors or social connections.

          So yes, the patsy is good, and adding vampire that's related to them, like a childe or sire. A contact for the werewolves to meet would be good, too, like you mentioned. They would probably be more interested in keeping the werewolves at arms reach of domain politics. But if you want the werewolves to get more involved with the vampires of the domain, then you can have them more manipulative, trying to point them at enemies and whatnot, but if that's not a goal it's not something you need to deal with.

          If you really want to be prepared, one of the minions of a ruler can be written up, a sheriff or harpy, spying on the werewolves or ready to try and warn them off while also foreshadowing their bosses' personality while not needing the ruler to put themselves at risk confronting a pack of strange werewolves.
          Last edited by nofather; 10-21-2017, 03:59 AM.

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          • #6
            You don't need any prepared NPCs, except for whoever your PCs will be interacting with.

            If you want, you might want to throw down a name for a few of the NPCs connected to the people PCs will be interacting with, but you don't really need to stat up rulership positions that your non-Vampire PCs are never going to interact with.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Maina View Post
              You don't need any prepared NPCs, except for whoever your PCs will be interacting with.
              I do not know what NPCs PCs will interact with - they are kind unpredictable. On last game session they just slaughtered 10 muslim NPCs and burned building just because they beat one of new PCs and rob him.

              So I ask here on your advice as Vampire STs on what stations in Kindred society are most often used in stories.

              Originally posted by nofather View Post
              So yes, the patsy is good, and adding vampire that's related to them, like a childe or sire. A contact for the werewolves to meet would be good, too, like you mentioned. They would probably be more interested in keeping the werewolves at arms reach of domain politics. But if you want the werewolves to get more involved with the vampires of the domain, then you can have them more manipulative, trying to point them at enemies and whatnot, but if that's not a goal it's not something you need to deal with.
              With rest of 'general' write-up of Domain I will probably take care - but I would like some thoughts on vampire NPC that could be interested in relations with werewolves. Some kind of local information broker? As my Uratha PCs have 'second guessing' knowledge of Kindred, they think about going for those 'manipulative vamps' ( do not know difference between Ventrue or Deava, yet ) to uncover if they are not related to the plotline. So maybe some Ventrue meddling with werewolves character idea could you point me too?
              Last edited by wyrdhamster; 10-21-2017, 07:35 AM.


              My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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              • #8
                At the most basic you need someone to set policy (your Prince), someone to enact policy (the Seneshal or Reagents depending on how things are run, probably a bit of both), and people to deal with when people get out of line (such as the Sherif, Inquisitors and Hounds).
                In addition you might want people who represent the intrests of the different power groups (Reagents, the Covenants, the Clans ect) on top of this each of these could have their agents and close allies who they can rely on (in the case of the Prince this will in part already be covered but in a proper game of Vampire the plots within the plots are ploting against the other plots). After that there are the inner workings of the Covenants if you want that level of detail.
                Once you're done with that remember that the Sire/Childe relationship is a good way to justify someone having access to people higher up the chain than they should and the Ordo Dracol have people who can stay up all day.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
                  With rest of 'general' write-up of Domain I will probably take care - but I would like some thoughts on vampire NPC that could be interested in relations with werewolves. Some kind of local information broker? As my Uratha PCs have 'second guessing' knowledge of Kindred, they think about going for those 'manipulative vamps' ( do not know difference between Ventrue or Deava, yet ) to uncover if they are not related to the plotline. So maybe some Ventrue meddling with werewolves character idea could you point me too?
                  You could go more helpful or antagonistic. Gangrel obviously are the most like werewolves on their own, so there could be some kinship if you had more of a visceral predator type vampire there, just like a member of the Circle of the Crone could be heavily involved with the spirits. Otherwise yes, having a naive vampire who sees a pack of newly arrived werewolves as an opportunity to point them at his enemies would be another way. That seems the most obvious use for them. In my setting there was a 'liaison' to the werewolves who was basically friendly with them (they didn't like it much but the information was shared freely), and since he could arrange for messages to be carried across the sides (the Pittman family is off limits, stay away from the river on Sunday night) he leveraged that into a position of power and influence among the domain because he kept scuffles and fights from breaking out. It got to the point that after the werewolves all died or left (not due to the vampires) he kept pretending that he had an in with them, and the vampires viewed the lack of bumping into werewolves as him just being very good. Since you're dealing with a pack you would probably want to go Daeva rather than Ventrue, as the other werewolves would notice if the vampire started hypnotizing others in the pack, but Majesty is more of a heavy whammy that hits everyone.

                  As an added benefit you could make them a wolf-blooded in life, give them a Tell.

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                  • #10
                    Okay, hammering idea of 'vampire using werewolves' NPC, I went over to made fan 2E rules on blood drinking from Kindred - and now I wonder over character concept. As I have Lancea Sanctum ruled domain that took out all the Circle of Crone opposition - I think that it only left me with Ordo Dracul vamp to manipulate wolves. You say Deava would be more fitting Clan for it than Ventrue? Giving Tell from Wolf-Blooded years of Ordo vamp is very interesting idea, I admit.
                    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 10-22-2017, 12:11 AM.


                    My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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                    • #11
                      So, a Zirnitra-Coil Ordo Dracul Daeva, newly Embraced. Probably their Sire (who likely doesn't think this is a good/cautious enough idea). A rival for the first vampire to turn them against. And 1-3 representatives of the establishment/authority (depending on if you want to give a stereotypical or balanced/nuanced view of the domain).

                      Remember you can spin up more vampires as nameless minion if you need the numbers. And if you really want to bare-bones it, just stat them as Brief Nightmares. It's not like the Pack is going to be interacting with the backup enough the deal with the details.
                      Last edited by Vent0; 10-22-2017, 06:24 AM.


                      Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
                      Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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                      • #12
                        I would suggest a minimal number of known vampires in the area. There are several reasons for this.
                        First is to make things easier for the GM, while providing opportunity to have new NPCs emerge as plot demands. Second Vampires could easily have a functional power structure, with minimal number of vampires. Ghouls and mortals could, and probably should, do most of the bureaucratic and economic work of a powerful organization. A ghoul would also make for a good face, having that perfect blend of utility and expendability that makes for the perfect henchmen.

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                        • #13
                          For now, for running LS ruled Doman of Uppsala, I think to concept characters:

                          Lancea Sanctum ( about half of all vamps in city, in Westminster-like Creed ):
                          • Archbishop Abraham Angermannus
                          • Inquisitor ( de facto Sheriff of Domain ) - Probably Child of Archbishop
                          • Crusaders - 2-3 'muscles' vamps
                          • Herold ( de facto Seneschal )
                          • Synod – Mostly higher Priests, but also works as Primogen Council, with Invictus and Ordo Dracul highest members as 'listeners' on it.
                          • Taifa from Mulsim Quarter - 3 Gangrels, from Ibilic Creed as minority in LS
                          Invictus – about 10 individuals related to Uppsala's Royal Castle

                          Ordo Dracul ( 4-5 vamps on Uppsala Uniwersity) :
                          • Zirnitra-Coil Daeva - Embraced in last 20 years, previous Wolf-Blooded, likes to pact with werewolves
                          Someone I missing now?

                          EDIT: I added Herold to the listening, from advice of Live Bait
                          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 10-23-2017, 09:20 AM.


                          My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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                          LGBT+ in CoD games

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                          • #14
                            You may want a Seneschal type to handle things like enacting decrees and keeping the paperwork in order and a Herald to inform the populace what's what (although the priests can handle that if he just informs them, everyone should be going to mass anyway).

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                            • #15
                              Your list looks functionally complete, Wyrdhamster. I'd like to echo the sentiment that from the werewolves' perspective they'll find themselves interacting first and more often with ghoul/mortal go-betweens, especially as they rub against the formal structure of the domain. (Versus, say, the wolf-blooded Daeva who's really living on the edge.)

                              They may also interact with different domain herds, which is usually one of the fastest ways to come to vampiric attention short of knocking on the door.

                              As you get time/inclination you may map the relationships between your vamp characters, at least to the level of "child/sire" and "hates/loves"--you know, the extreme, noteworthy elements. If you're feeling super-organized an Excel table with intersecting rows and columns of characters can do this (color-code opinion, mark special relationship in cells). This is, however, far beyond where most will bother to go....

                              --Khanwulf

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