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Weihann Cynn--how do you run them?

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  • Weihann Cynn--how do you run them?

    As in the subject line: I'm interested in better understanding how you may have used the Weihann Cynn as a Covenant, and what kinds of pitfalls and concerns cropped up.

    My understanding of their power set is that you select the specific or broad supernatural contact you want, and take Contact with the Uncanny at various dots to represent that. There is a great deal that is left to the Storyteller in what's written. For example: how does the character acquire the contact to begin with? Do the Weihann Cynn run meet-and-greets? Or can you go to a more established elder and ask for an introduction? Any of these could work, but the text is silent.

    And then there's the Masquerade, which technically should demand that the kinds of knowledge-based contracts the Weihann Cynn truck in result in Final Death. Or, death for the mortal/supernatural who now knows more than they should about vamps (i.e. that they exist). I suppose this could be a major point of conflict between the Invictus and Weihann Cynn, since the former is the champion of the Masquerade, after all.

    And then there's contacting the supernatural... um, contact.... While some you can walk down the street and knock on their doors, it's not clear for example how you might reach others like ghosts and spirits--or even if that's a matter left to personal solution outside of covenant concerns!

    So what else has come up for you with these guys? I'm planning on using them, so anything is helpful.

    --Khanwulf

  • #2
    The Masquerade is a shield between vampires and humanity, not vampires and other supernaturals, so that part wouldn't be a problem.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by nofather View Post
      The Masquerade is a shield between vampires and humanity, not vampires and other supernaturals, so that part wouldn't be a problem.

      I suspected that would be the answer, but left the red meat in there anyway. Some Invictus have issues with ghouls--seeing them as walking violations. Others I suspect would hold that *any* contact with outsiders that confirm the existence of vampires places all at risk. This may have contributed to the eventual extinction of the Weihann Cynn as a separate Covenant.

      They certainly seem different enough that it's hard to imagine them as Crone, though that's probably where their adherents ended up.

      --Khanwulf

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      • #4
        First, the Tradition of Masquerade in Requiem is not such an iron-clad command as it's in Vampire: The Masquerde. Even worse, it's a Tradition handed down by the Lancea et Sanctum. Secondly, the Invictus doesn't enforce the Masquerade by inflicting Final Death on the offenders. They are usually not that powerful compared to the other covenants. The Invictus use their influence to cover up Masquerade breaches, at least that's my understanding. Of course, this will most likely end-up indebting the Kindred who has effed things up. That's for example what the Merit "Where the bodies are buried" is for. Lastly, trafficking with other Supernaturals is not really a breach of the Masquerade.

        Now, on to the subject of the Weihann Cynn. I guess, when you join the covenant, you will end up performing higher level services (5-7) together with others, and the opposite side ends up owing you small favors in return. Or you are asked to perform a service for a more established member of the covenant. Thus, you are recognized as go-between and can start asking for favors in return. I think it's mostly small steps taken that enable you to gain trust from the other side, and thus enable you to ask bigger things. First, you ask for something trivial, and fulfill a trivial request in return. This way, you establish trust, and show the other side that you are willing to uphold your end of the bargain. As your power, influence and knowledge as a Kindred increase, you will be able to perform greater services, and be able to ask for greater aid in return.

        Imagine the Ieldra who could probably move most of her domain to assist in a mysterious endeavor, simply by commanding lesser Kindred, calling in favors owed, and granting favors. This will deeply indebt her or burn up resources and good-will. But when she comes through, she will be able to ask something similar in return.

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        • #5
          Thanks Murder-of-Crows, I reread bits of RfR and note that the Masquerade was invented by the Julii. That means that the Weihann Cynn (probably in a guise with a different name, since that name is Saxon/Old English) either didn't practice it or did so in a very different form.

          I've actually found the exposition here on the Masquerade to be very helpful, so thank you both. As an ex-VtM player it's harder to wrap the head around a setting where the point is less "kill those who risk our revelation" and more "fix the problem before it becomes a threat". Still, sloppy neonates would reflect badly on their sires. I think we've effectively staked the idea that the Cynn would be ill-regarded for trucking with outsiders. Except for the Lancea, with whom they might bargain just the same as that Covenant gains ground.

          I suppose for Weihann Cynn operation there would be some understanding that Status is linked to the holder's ability to marshal contractual resources. Thus, the Ieldra would be a good example of Covenant Status 5, and capable of moving the entire group to accomplish something. Meanwhile, she rakes in minor boons all the time as the head of a pyramid of obligations, tasks and orders that means she implicitly gains credit when a lower-ranked member takes the time out of other jobs to do something for another. Early on, as well, your sire (who is in the Cynn as well, right?) would serve as a source of hand-off work, to which you would be indebted to him as well.

          It's all a lot of back-scratching at work, then, and putting out a kind of shingle for supernatural fixing. I'm getting a kind of organized crime vibe, Godfather-like. It's not, practically speaking, all THAT different from the Invictus, except the Invictus keep things within the vampiric population and run on oaths and clear obligations to manage domains and relationships. The Weihann Cynn would need to keep tabs on ALL the supernaturals and their goings-on, in order to stay relevant.

          Sounds exhausting. No wonder they went out of fashion eventually.

          --Khanwulf

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          • #6
            Don't know if quite related but, well, this irish dude totally needs some kudos for style.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
              Don't know if quite related but, well, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abhartach"]this irish dude[/URL] totally needs some kudos for style.
              I'm my headcanon history he's a Daeva, and one of the creatures St. Patrick Vampire Hunter took care of whilst "chasing the Snakes out of Ireland."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

                I'm my headcanon history he's a Daeva, and one of the creatures St. Patrick Vampire Hunter took care of whilst "chasing the Snakes out of Ireland."
                St. Patrick vs crazy Daeva warlord & exterminating an ancient irish branch of the Gorgon bloodline? Seems totes legit to me.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Baaldam View Post

                  St. Patrick vs crazy Daeva warlord & exterminating an ancient irish branch of the Gorgon bloodline? Seems totes legit to me.
                  Correction: exterminating and driving into Scotland the Irish Daeva. Who are, after all, nicknamed "serpents."

                  And I didn't come up with St. Patrick Vampire Hunter--his own legends around this Abhartach dude cover that. I only extend the Daeva/serpent link.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post

                    Correction: exterminating and driving into Scotland the Irish Daeva. Who are, after all, nicknamed "serpents."
                    Damn, I keep forgetting that nickname, my bad.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Going to necro my own thread to add something that occurred to me the other day while reading Changeling 2e.

                      Weihann Cynn deal in formal contracts and reciprocity relationships. We know a snippet of their capabilities in the merit that enables ironclad exchange of favors--somehow.

                      Changelings deal in formal contracts and ferociously reciprocital relationships. Because the Wyrd has its day. And its pay. Gipping the Wyrd and welshing out on your obligations means you have Real Bad Unspecified Things Happen to You! (Don't ask!)

                      Weihann Cynn were active in that most faerie-ful set of islands: Britain and Ireland (we presume). I propose that it is fair to associate the two, and presume that the Weihann Cynn's real power lay in adopting the tropes of Contracts with the Wyrd--at greater cost in Vitae, and difficulty in learning them, perhaps. They understood what the Wyrd did even if they didn't really understand Arcadia, the Hedge or its creatures all that well. They understood geases and the ability to affect others through contracts (lowercase 'c') that the other might not even be aware of--such as the ability to kill through fear thanks to accepting the position of the Weihann Cynn and their mortal interlocutors, the British Druids.

                      They also understood how to arrange contracts with otherworldly entities whom they came into contact with. We get that in the Merit, explicitly, but note that they could also, through this enforceable mechanism, create a mutual relationship with the Strix that borrowed their power in exchange for limited surrender of themselves--limited in scope or limited in time, regardless.

                      All of the above would be enough on its face to--once the Senex understood sufficiently--demand that the Weihann Cynn and their druids be wiped out. Thoroughly and with prejudice--much un-like how the Romans treated other religions in their territory. So, off the legions go to Mona in 60 AD, and back in 77 because they didn't do a good enough job of it. The oral traditions of the Weihann Cynn were left in drifting ash and overall knowledge dealt a mortal wound that had them rebuilding from scraps for centuries. It's doubtful you could say they ever recovered--even their name as a group was Saxon-ized after Rome left, and they leaned more and more on reciprocal covenants with supernatural outsiders until by the time of Regina that was all the "younglings" knew them for.

                      Meanwhile the scattered sorcery practices of the Weihann Cynn became folded through convergent similarities into various foci of Cruac as practiced by disparate groups such as the Cult of The Morrigan--who gained ground as the Cynn lost it. In time, these groups converged as the Circle of the Crone.

                      So that's my theory, absent further materials from OP.

                      --Khanwulf

                      Last edited by Khanwulf; 03-27-2019, 10:56 AM. Reason: Wall of text copy-pasta is bad!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As Contagion comes out it might make sense to have them as a faction of the False.

                        From Dark Eras, 'Britain by night has other rulers...Any of these, all of these, could be a threat to the Kindred of Britain. There are too many of them to fight; they cannot, as a whole, be conquered and brought to heel. So the Weihan Cynn resort to the basest sorcery of all: They bargain. The Woods-Witches strike deals with the other monsters of the isles and play them against each other.'

                        And you can see the Crytpocracy as a force that unites to battle social entropy here. The Weihan Cynn seem to embrace it, use it even, making alliances with outsiders to keep them distracted and focused away from vampires, and using those same alliances as a weapon against other covenants.

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                        • #13
                          Yeah I have my eye on Contagion as a contributing item, but am also thinking of how the Weihan Cynn can be fleshed out further and made more significant beyond their dying light in Regina.

                          I mean consider: you have a Covenant that succeeded in holding back the Invictus in Britain of all places for roughly a thousand years. Holding them to second-rate status in many cities and outright denying them more country influence. That's significant and deserves more attention, along with how the Senex's far-flung influence collided with them (e.g. the Legio).

                          Now all this may be made moot by the Arthurian DE under development--we don't know, but at least it includes vampires!

                          Back to your DE quote however: yes, bargaining is basest sorcery, but it works because the individuals involved attach significance to the contract (implied or explicit) with that bargain. And that's also what Wyrd Contracts (big 'C') hook onto: reality taking agreements seriously. So... what? Why not break agreements with the Cynn? Do they have something that seals them supernaturally (as Changelings do), or are they reliant on the somewhat thin supernatural community knowing and enforcing pressure on oath-breakers? The latter is possible but a thin and risky approach, given how rarely the different splats are supposed to interact....

                          --Khanwulf

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
                            Weihann Cynn were active in that most faerie-ful set of islands: Britain and Ireland (we presume). I propose that it is fair to associate the two, and presume that the Weihann Cynn's real power lay in adopting the tropes of Contracts with the Wyrd--at greater cost in Vitae, and difficulty in learning them, perhaps. They understood what the Wyrd did even if they didn't really understand Arcadia, the Hedge or its creatures all that well. They understood geases and the ability to affect others through contracts (lowercase 'c') that the other might not even be aware of--such as the ability to kill through fear thanks to accepting the position of the Weihann Cynn and their mortal interlocutors, the British Druids.

                            They also understood how to arrange contracts with otherworldly entities whom they came into contact with. We get that in the Merit, explicitly, but note that they could also, through this enforceable mechanism, create a mutual relationship with the Strix that borrowed their power in exchange for limited surrender of themselves--limited in scope or limited in time, regardless.

                            All of the above would be enough on its face to--once the Senex understood sufficiently--demand that the Weihann Cynn and their druids be wiped out. Thoroughly and with prejudice--much un-like how the Romans treated other religions in their territory. So, off the legions go to Mona in 60 AD, and back in 77 because they didn't do a good enough job of it. The oral traditions of the Weihann Cynn were left in drifting ash and overall knowledge dealt a mortal wound that had them rebuilding from scraps for centuries. It's doubtful you could say they ever recovered--even their name as a group was Saxon-ized after Rome left, and they leaned more and more on reciprocal covenants with supernatural outsiders until by the time of Regina that was all the "younglings" knew them for.
                            Very nice! Mind if I reference this in my RfR update? It gives wonderful fodder for a Legio-versus-barbarians game.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Draconis View Post

                              Very nice! Mind if I reference this in my RfR update? It gives wonderful fodder for a Legio-versus-barbarians game.
                              Feel free! And thank you for the research in the simple questions thread on the name. I think you have it: the tribe of the balance. That lends more weight to my creative interpretation above that they attempted to sit at the point of balance between forces of contract and man and beast.

                              An act few others would understand, at least--prone to... Overreaction.

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