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  • #31
    Originally posted by LostLight View Post
    Afflictions- I think they should have appeared earlier in the book, as they are much more basic in nature than Twists and Malisons.

    So dhampirs are once again referred as the products of Blood Magic. Is it me, or that it feels like there were two writers for this chapter, and there were some communication problems between them?

    Strix have Vices. Humans have Vices. Strix are a type of Beasts. Dhampirs have two Vices. What does it tell you?

    Also, was it said before that they get two Vices and I missed/forgot it? If not, that that section really should have been earlier in this sub-chapter.

    Time for Merits-

    Beloved Stranger- because not all dhampirs had such a fucked up life. Blood Dissonance- cool. Hand of Doom- awesome. Mother's Army Recruit makes sense. Night's Child- because you can even a decent child even among the dead. Omen Sensitivity- we really had to have this merit reprinted? Requiem Counterpoint is nice. Thief of Fate- see Omen Sensitivity. Vampire Hunter- because it had to be a thing.

    Well, I still have a weekly blog post to finish and things to do, so we'll stop here. Yes, this was a good sub-chapter.
    Most appreciate the point, LostLight, that the clan affiliations for dhampir are essentially mirror foils of their parents.

    Most of the book seems like it was touched by several writers, who didn't always read what the other was writing. There is much redundancy and inconsistency.

    Dhampir only enjoy a second Vice when they use their last point of willpower to fuel a Twist, or take damage in their rightmost 3 boxes to fuel a Malison. These are pretty edge cases, I think--certainly desperate! At that point, then, the dhampir enjoys the Affliction vices. It's a little unfortunate, as some of the Afflictions are pretty cool!

    Beloved Stranger is, alone, enough to make the best F'ing friend to the Prince. Rock on, wayward son!

    Note: Thief of Fate is all "drawback". I think that is an errata-level error.

    --Khanwulf

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    • #32
      Originally posted by LostLight View Post
      I have some problem with Twists and Themes as they don't really feel like supernatural powers- but it makes sense, as they are subtle kind of powers.
      I found their write-up very hard to follow.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
        I found their write-up very hard to follow.
        yeah, it takes awhile to digest the writeup and understand how exactly to Twists and Themes work.


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        • #34
          Originally posted by Second Chances View Post

          Using "lame" to mean stupid is also derogatory in the exact same way that using "gay" or "retarded" as an insult is, society only just starting to realize it now. It is a word worth expunging from your vocabulary.

          Above and beyond that, chalk me up as another person who likes the cover art. It's moody and it gets the point across of vampires hovering around in the background of the half-damned's lives, guidinf and controlling them.
          I apologize if the words I used were offensive, it wasn't my intent

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          • #35
            It was also a bit rude. There's nicer ways to state one's opinion than saying that something suck.

            I like the cover. It doesn't really convey what the book's about, but that might be difficult in this case. At least they made a good attempt after the extremely nondescript cover of Thousand Years of Night.
            As for the art inside the book; nothing was really breathtaking, but most of it was still interesting. While the quality wasn't always great from a purely technical standpoint (page 40 being somewhat unintentionally hilarious), almost all of the images had some action or details that told a story about what they depicted, or were otherwise evocative. Only the ghoul chapter suffered from boring depictions of ghouls doing generic tasks for their regnants. That and the full page illustration on page 48, but I tend not to see the full page illustrations as I only use PDFs and navigate primarily through bookmarks or learned page numbers.

            LostLight: I've like your reports thus far, but there's a little thing that irks me. You've consistently written Curac instead of Crúac, and while it's not the end of the world I just couldn't not point it out any longer.
            Last edited by Tessie; 12-07-2017, 08:01 PM.


            Bloodline: The Stygians
            Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke

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            • #36
              So, how about those revenants. That's the next chapter, right?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                earned page numbers.

                LostLight: I've like your reports thus far, but there's a little thing that irks me. You've consistently written Curac instead of Crúac, and while it's not the end of the world I just couldn't not point it out any longer.
                yeah, I do have some words which I make such mistakes (it took me awhile to stop writing "Exrach" instead of Exarch, for example). Noted.

                Originally posted by MCN
                So, how about those revenants. That's the next chapter, right?
                Almost. There is one more section in the dhampir chapter, and then I'll more to revenants. I try to not read ahead of time in order to document my reaction to the book in real time.


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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Tessie View Post
                  It was also a bit rude. There's nicer ways to state one's opinion than saying that something suck.

                  I like the cover. It doesn't really convey what the book's about, but that might be difficult in this case. At least they made a good attempt after the extremely nondescript cover of Thousand Years of Night.
                  As for the art inside the book; nothing was really breathtaking, but most of it was still interesting. While the quality wasn't always great from a purely technical standpoint (page 40 being somewhat unintentionally hilarious), almost all of the images had some action or details that told a story about what they depicted, or were otherwise evocative. Only the ghoul chapter suffered from boring depictions of ghouls doing generic tasks for their regnants. That and the full page illustration on page 48, but I tend not to see the full page illustrations as I only use PDFs and navigate primarily through bookmarks or learned page numbers.

                  LostLight: I've like your reports thus far, but there's a little thing that irks me. You've consistently written Curac instead of Crúac, and while it's not the end of the world I just couldn't not point it out any longer.

                  How much of the english language must be sacraficed on the Altar of politeness?

                  I'm frail, but wont be offended if you call an idea lame.


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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                    How much of the english language must be sacraficed on the Altar of politeness?

                    I'm frail, but wont be offended if you call an idea lame.
                    As others have already pointed out the choice of words was unfortunate for more reasons than just impoliteness.
                    The reason I pointed out that it was also rude is because it's straddling the line between just a stated opinion ("I don't like this") and an attack against the artists/art direction ("this is shit"). It's a minor thing and I probably wouldn't have cared most other times, but there is also the context of the user having previously banned for a week for insulting VtR artists as well as other repeat offences. (Edit: In hindsight this might've been hobby moderation and I probably should've just reported the post.)

                    Compare with me, who haven't been holding back on my criticism about Half-Damned in another thread, but I've also presented it as an opinion piece, and tried to give some constructive criticism towards the next VtR supplement. When I realised it could've been construed as a personal attack (a dev managed to post right before me, and my intention was to address the devs in general) I went back to edit my post and even messaged the dev to explain that it wasn't supposed to be directed to them personally.

                    Now, you might not react to people being rude about something you've spent a lot of time creating, but that doesn't really mean it's okay to do so. I know how extremely discouraging such "criticism" can be and it's not a good thing. Certainly not towards the creator, but also not for anyone who's interested in further products because if such remarks have any effect on future products it's most likely a negative one as the affected creator has less enthusiasm about it.
                    Last edited by Tessie; 12-08-2017, 02:06 PM.


                    Bloodline: The Stygians
                    Ordo Dracul Mystery: Coil of Smoke

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                    • #40
                      so let's return to subject, shall we?

                      Dhampir- last post!

                      The "dhampirs as NPCs section".

                      Dhampirs- the incarnated doom of their parents.

                      Wait- Final Demise? I think that's an errata stuff. Was it mentioned in the thread?

                      Yeah, dhampirs do make good antagonists.

                      The regular "don't abuse your players" kind of thing.

                      Actually, it looks like that section is quit good- much better than some other sections in that chapter.

                      I'm really disappointed that there isn't some extra material about the Boogeymen- like example characters and such.

                      Again, hunter-dhampir crossover. Just make the Boogeymen a conspiracy already :P

                      Really, too much of crossover in a vampire book.

                      Seriously- all that crossover talk and Beast got only one line?

                      I really thing that the position of the dhampirs as prophets and readers of omens should have taken a much greater place when elaborating their place in the All Night Society.

                      Also- where are the strix? I want to know how the Owls react to half bloods- and heck, what would happen if an Owl possessed vampire would sire a child?

                      Ala- oh, I like that. The choice of name was very in theme. Is it me, or that the ale feel a bit like "strix possessed", with all of that "black shadow of doom" thing? Again, maybe inside each dhampir there is a small strix waiting to hatch.

                      Oh, the writeup has already established a strix- ale connection. Finally. Yeeeeeeeeesssssssssss.

                      I would have preferred to get an actual writeup of an ala together with certain Dread Power suggestions instead of just sending me to the CofD rulebook. I would simply give them access to Strix Doom Powers, together with Shadow Potency and the ability to drink Vitae, but with a degrading Integrity up into the level they turn into a living incarnation of Doom.

                      I wonder how many of the Boogeymen are actually Ale.

                      I like the wide range of possibilities presented for the use of dhamps.

                      Chapter Sum Up!

                      The Good

                      - playable dhamps.

                      - tie in for Hunter crossover

                      - the CotC, the Invictus and the Ordo's views.

                      - the Half Blood Director

                      - Boogeymen and ale

                      - Doom and Insomaina

                      - Afflictions as foils and mini Beasts

                      - Twists and Malisons

                      - Beloved Stranger, Night Child and Hand of Doom

                      The Bad

                      - a major lack of consistency, to the point it becomes confusing.

                      - the "vampire demonization"

                      - not enough strix

                      - not having mentions of Beast and Hunter in the Crossover section. Also, too many crossover references.

                      - the contradiction between the Lance's presented view and the Testament.

                      - not having stats for Boogeymen and ale.

                      - some missed opportunities.

                      - needless repetitions.

                      - some problems with the book's structure.

                      - lacking the disadvantages of Blood Lust and Insomania

                      - the unclear way Themes were written

                      In sort, there is both good and bad in this chapter, more or less equally- the problem is that the "good" is very concentrated and the the "bad" is all over the place, which sometimes could make you grind your teeth. While it is clear that the writers has put a lot of work into the book, it felt like there was some misuse of word-count, which is more of the editor/developer's work than the writers. The main complain is that the chapter was messy, and that it was full of contradictions- but there are some really good gems in there, which should have been polished better so they could shine stronger. Also, while I understand the reason for the "vampire demonization", I think it was a bit over the edge and should have been toned down- after all, those who buy the book are Requiem fans, not Hunter/Masquerade, and it should have been taken into account, I think.

                      Commercials, once more- Fiction!
                      The hell did I just read? That wasn't a pleasant fiction. I can't say it made me want to play a revenant. Yikes. Yeah, I know it is an horror game- but I have a very refined taste for horror, and that was a bit too much. I also didn't really liked the writing style- but all of this is a personal flavor, so I assume other people would have other preferences.

                      Next time- starting the revenant chapter!


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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Sparketh View Post
                        This is a personal attack against the author.
                        I didn't noticed it at the time, sorry, my bad. Should I edit the post? I'm sincerely not sure.

                        Originally posted by Juhn View Post
                        As a physically-disabled person I'd like to politely disagree: "Gay" and "retarded" are still regularly used to demean the groups of people they refer to, while at this point "lame" tends to only mean "uncool", and I don't think I've ever seen it used to attack people with walking difficulties (i.e. the literal meaning of the word), which at this point is outright archaic. In general, this is a good thing, as it means the word has entirely lost its sting, and bringing up its ableist origins like this may be empowering it to harm again.

                        I realize this is just one person's view, but as a member of the group in question, I'd really prefer people not try to make "lame" genuinely ableist again, even if the intention is well-meaning (i.e. to get people to stop using it). I'd rather not empower the word to be used as a slur.
                        And I second that. As much as "lame" does have a rather derogatory meaning, it isn't linked to disabled people anymore in its use. As a mentally-disabled person I already saw too much what the well-meaning of "non-affected" people can do. As our motto says, "nothing about us without us".

                        But regardless, I'm seeing too much of those heated discussions about the art of the books nowadays here. I'm not a fan of most of the style used today, though I find it better than the start of the First edition. But it is pretty much a question of taste first and foremost. It is relevant, sure, and we can discuss it in the manner of how the art delivers the mood of the book. Personally, I find it hard to dislike so much this art considering my personal opinion for WtA's covers and most of its internal art.

                        Originally posted by Khanwulf View Post
                        I'd rather not see insults directed at artists and writers on these or any other forum.

                        Frankly, I'd rather not see insults directed at all. (And yes, I try and often fail to keep my own snark colored within the lines.)

                        VtR is one product of a busy setting of major splats. We're posting here because vamps and their world interest us, and care about the books that come out for VtR because there are relatively few, precious spots to put Onyx Path-sanctioned material into circulation. We'd like it to be "right", high-quality, and up the game. That puts people on edge. Still, there is no excuse for rudeness.

                        LostLight I am sorry your thread has been shat upon.

                        --Khanwulf
                        My bad. I didn't thought through what I was posting, and sometimes I get confused with what is or is not a proper comment. It took me several minutes to understand what I did.

                        Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
                        How much of the english language must be sacraficed on the Altar of politeness?

                        I'm frail, but wont be offended if you call an idea lame.
                        None of it and all of it. The discussion itself is the good point, it meaning that the question became relevant instead of invisible. With a hard-to-notice disability, I can say how it hurts to be a invisible issue.

                        Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                        Chapter Sum Up!
                        Overall it made me even more eager to get this book. I'll have to wait until the 20th to buy it, though. As it seems, it was a not-so-well edited good material.


                        Sorry if I seem too straightforward, or if I don't get you. Autism isn't a forgiving condition.

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                        • #42
                          One reason I think the dhampir is so "messy" is that this is, as far as I know, the most in-depth and lengthy attention they've gotten in Vampire: The Requiem, right? In Second Ed., certainly. So we're basically looking at the same thing the Kindred themselves were, waaaaayyyy back at the beginning, before all the books and editions and errata and reboots that polished and honed them into the pretty consistent and tight concept we have now. Dhampir are still the rough gem, sparkly but coarse, waiting to get cut into a jewel that can sit proudly on VtR's greater necklace of ideas. Or something. It may not be all that comforting to those who'd like playable, tightly written dhampir right now, but it's worth bearing in mind.

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                          • #43
                            My guess, on the messiness and possibly Masquerade feel of the thing, is that we kinda do have a new team. Rose has moved over to changeling, so we basically have a new vampire team. Much like there was a massive shift in Requiem's direction when Requiem for Rome came out, I think we're seeing a bit of confusion and finding-of-feet that the new group is having.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
                              And I second that. As much as "lame" does have a rather derogatory meaning, it isn't linked to disabled people anymore in its use. As a mentally-disabled person I already saw too much what the well-meaning of "non-affected" people can do. As our motto says, "nothing about us without us".
                              I'm not going to get into a debate about this, because the position is a valid, but I will clarify this: I live in the same sort boat that you do. There is a reason react to the word "retard" with blistering fury and my reaction to the word "lame" when it is used as dumb is largely a sympathetic reaction based off of that. If you have a disagreement with me on either of those words, I will absolutely listen. But politely, please don't assume that I am some well-meaning but cisabled person doesn't know what they are talking about. I've travelled that road too.

                              All of this is off topic though, so let's drop it.

                              I am a REALLY big fan of how Twists work for the Dhampir. I love Mage-like magic systems that allow for some creativity and flexibility. Blood & Sacraments is also one of my books though, so this is no real surprise.
                              Last edited by Second Chances; 12-10-2017, 01:45 PM.


                              CofD booklists:
                              Beast I Changeling | Geist l Hunter l Mage | Mummy | Promethean | Vampire

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                              • #45
                                Chapter 2- Revenants
                                THE NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD BEGINS!!!

                                Dante's Inferno quote. That's raaaaaaaad.

                                Once against capital Blood as entity. So it's official? The Blood is Requiem's Wyrd/Principle/God Machine? I'll have to work it to my cosmology.

                                Well, I must say I do like the opening paragraph. I really does make you think that revenants has always been in Requiem, unlike dhampir.

                                "Embrace of long lost clans whose blood runs as thin as water"- that's awesome. "From Revenant you came and to Revenant you shall return" kind of thing. As "blood thinning" is not a Requiem thing, I wonder what cause a clan to lose its ability to Embrace- for the Utukku it is said to come from the destruction of Ur, so perhaps just as every clan rose on its own, their fall also come the same way? And if so, would it be possible to kill a clan in the same way?

                                So this is how I see the "Kindred Evolution" path-

                                Revenant --> Wicked Dead --> Kindred --> Revenant

                                company of outcasts kind of things. I like that.

                                A monster child? Joseph, is that you? (Mahoutsukai no Yome reference)

                                .....Cartaphilus.....

                                Well, that's a scary priestess.

                                I must say that while it was a cool origin story- I'm not sure why revenants need such story. It would make much more sense for those half damned to rise before the Kindred, not after them. Saying "revenants have been around since humanity, the hungry dead from which the first of the clans rose" would make much more sense, IMO- but I assume that the revenants need something to tell themselves in order to sleep well at day.

                                The "we have our own laws in here" is just awesome. Makes me think about that Neglatu prince in Egypt.

                                So revenants are above ghouls even though the ghoul state is more "complete" than revenant's? (learning devotions and such). You, sir, are a hypocrite.

                                Well, being a revenant sucks, I see.

                                Number one law in the All Night Society- don't go kill people. You will end up dead. And if you do, make sure there is no body left behind. The same is still valid for revenants.

                                I must say that this chapter manage to to deliver the messy relationships between revenants and Kindred much better than the dhampir one, without making vampires into lifeless monsters who are empty inside.

                                I must say that I don't really like how the "opening italic paragraph" doesn't really corresponds to the following text. It also happened in the dhampir chapter. Again, editorial problem, not writer one.

                                I can't understand the flow of text- one moment they talk about being a revenant, and then they start talking about the Mikhaili, with an italic section in the middle. It feels like a big editor oversight.

                                In general, I find the Mikhaili story cool- I love the lost clans section. Also, is it me or that the text mentions that the last Mikhaili created a new Clan? The only weird thing is the thinning of blood, but I remember that it was said it is not really how things work.

                                I wonder what would make a revenant to not want the Uplifting. Sure, freedom is nice and all- but it is the price you need to pay for stop having a murder house (also, it is cheaper than maintaining the said murder house).

                                "pity is a thing even dead hearts can feel"- see, that's much more of a Requiem thing to say.

                                The "Childer of Church" sounds really awesome kind of thing, isn't it?

                                Now, while I do like the Mikhaili, there are two complains about them. Well, make it three, even though the third was a "spoiler". First, their name feels way to mundane when compared to other clans, but I like how it rolls on the tongue so I can let it slide. Second, their Bane is much too paralyzing, and it does not based upon Humanity- again, I can let the last part slide as both the Jiang Shi and the Akhud's Banes are not Humanity based (even though I've homebrewed the last one), but perhaps by tying it to humanity the Mikhaili would be more playable and not practically dead for half a year. The last complain is that their Discipline, as presented, gives almost nothing for vampires- and it is a shame that the writer didn't manage to add their own version to the book.

                                Well, that's it for now. I'm going to play Pokemon Go (gen 3 is out. Yay). See you next time.
                                Last edited by LostLight; 12-11-2017, 12:48 PM.


                                My Homebrew Signature- Because I need one. If you use any of it, please share with me how it went!

                                On a Dragonlance-reading break. Surprise homebrew may still happen :P
                                I now blog in here

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