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Mage taking over a Vampires body

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  • Mage taking over a Vampires body

    So, theoretically let's say a Mage take over a Vampires body, leaving behind/absorbing his body in the process? Would the Mage Keep its abilities, the vampires Discipline, both, or just form a bloodline? If This was in one of the Mage books, I apologize because I have not read them in a while.

  • #2
    Depends on what you mean here by ‘take over’. In any case, I highly doubt the mage would have access to her host’s Disciplines. Some of her own powers may be diminished, especially Attainments.

    For keeping both Awakened and Kindred powers and/or forming a new Bloodline/Legacy... sounds like Plot Stuff, rather than something to form strict mechanics for. I’m reminded of the Tremere.


    MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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    • #3
      First you kind of have to narrow down by what means a mage is dissolving his body to take over a vampire's body, because that's not really the straightforward province of a normal spell. Normal spellcasting would probably be something more like possession, where the mage's body lies in a temporary trance while they control the vampire's body, something more like a strix Embodiment. A mage subliming into the pure will enforced over a vampire body is probably using some kind of strange Artifact or performing some unique working (a ghost mage seeking a physical form of lichdom?), in which case the context of whatever that power is might help inform the answer.

      This is the kind of thing that can lead to weird unique templates that aren't as straightforward as "stack X on top of Y," similarly to what happens if a strix uses Synthesis to fuse with a mage or a demon or somebody. See also the rumors of breath-drinking vampire sorcerers, the unique transformation of the Tremere liches, etc.

      Short answer: No straight defined answer, good fodder for messing around with new ideas.

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      • #4
        As Stupid Loserman said, it is a no for short. As a rule of thumb, Major Templates will never stack unless by Plot Device.

        If you want a mechanical rule, so, it would be to stick with one. Either the resulting entity will be mechanically a Mage, or mechanically a Vampire. You could let the other facet linger as either an Attainment/Bloodline, or as Merits and such.

        One idea can be to convert the character completely into Vampire rules, but let the player recover every XP spent previously on anything Mage-specific. Then, some things from Mage could linger, specially Merits and associations, while the XP could be used to buy Vampire traits linked either to the previous vampire or the previous Mage. Some aspects of the original Vampire can be lost, since the entity isn't it anymore.


        Sorry if I seem too straightforward, or if I don't get you. Autism isn't a forgiving condition.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by monteparnas View Post
          As Stupid Loserman said, it is a no for short. As a rule of thumb, Major Templates will never stack unless by Plot Device.
          Rose actually said in the Changeling kickstarter that Major Templates can potentially stack because they change completely things about a mortals nature or something iirc


          Genius templates (for Demon: the Descent)

          Rakshasa: the Kingdom (Featuring the Extinction Chronicle) [WIP]

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          • #6
            Originally posted by milo v3 View Post
            Rose actually said in the Changeling kickstarter that Major Templates can potentially stack because they change completely things about a mortals nature or something iirc

            Do you have a link to that post or at least remember in what Update it was?

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            • #7
              Crossovers just wreck everything, why not play each splat as if the other supernaturals don't exist? (Except for Werewolf and Vampire since there's always SOMETHING between them)

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              • #8
                (nevermind: probably just feeding the troll)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Shawarbaaz View Post
                  Crossovers just wreck everything, why not play each splat as if the other supernaturals don't exist? (Except for Werewolf and Vampire since there's always SOMETHING between them)
                  This is nothing but blatant threadcrapping, and a continuation of a consistent pattern of you disrespecting others’ playstyle preferences. You are banned from this thread, and in danger of being banned from these forums if this pattern doesn’t stop.


                  Onyx Path Forum Moderator

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Shaddar View Post


                    Do you have a link to that post or at least remember in what Update it was?
                    Unfortunately it was in the comment section, so there is no way to provide a link. I'll post a quote of it though:
                    Originally posted by Rose
                    The template stacking rules in 1e were designed to prevent players from creating Vampire/Werewolf/Mage monstrosities and becoming "too powerful." When we did Vampire 2e nine years later, it became clear that was not the problem it had seemed to be at the beginning, and that trying to solve it the way we had had created another problem: that players thought "major/minor template" was an in-setting thing, that vampires and mages had something metaphysical in common and that ghouls and wolf-blooded had something _different_ in common.

                    That's not the case. Vampires and mages are two entirely different phenomena, with no magical traits in common from an in-character perspective. Vampires and werewolves... well, they share a few things, but that's mainly by virtue of both being predators. The real common trait of monsters in the Chronicles of Darkness is that they either begin as or become human. Nothing more, nothing less.

                    So in the 2e games, templates are strictly a mechanical convenience. We still don't recommend mixing monster types, and do it only rarely ourselves... but on a setting level, it's quite possible some beings could cross categories. And if that works for your individual chronicle, go ahead and do it.


                    Genius templates (for Demon: the Descent)

                    Rakshasa: the Kingdom (Featuring the Extinction Chronicle) [WIP]

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