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What if a Werewolf is embraced?

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  • What if a Werewolf is embraced?

    I'm totally new to COfD, and while I know of abominations in the cWOD, I don't know if there are rules for a thing like an abomination in COfD


    My English sucks. Sorry.

  • #2
    By default, Major templates don't stack. The werewolf would be dead.

    That said, the Chronicles of Darkness are full of unknown magics and strange creatures and strange hybrids may be possible (mostly as NPCs). The Strix Synthesis ability is explicitly an avenue for this in the core book.

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    • #3
      What Maina said. There is no standard template for a mixture between a werewolf and a vampire, and at least as of first edition, the default assumption is the werewolf dies when you drain all the blood from her, but the Embrace doesn't take when you fill it with your vitae, and you're just left with a corpse. The nWoD/CofD is filled with exception cases and strange mysteries, so never say never, but any "crossbreed" is probably going to be the unique result of extraordinary circumstances, and would probably be some homebrew entity with more particular traits than simply stacking one template on top of the other.

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      • #4
        The ban on template stacking hasn't been reintroduced in 2E, and Dev comments in the Changeling Kickstarter have clarified that this is intentional - there's no longer a 'rule' against it.
        If it makes a good story, go for it.

        In the interest of having a good discussion, we should probably not force 'the werewolf would die' on OP as it's no longer necessarily accurate and also the most boring option.

        OP, I would look at the Admonitoria, which is unofficial content by a former OPP writer about a mixed Changeling/Vampire splat for inspiration. Alternatively, if it works better for you, the werewolf would die, or just become a vampire with an appropriately strange Bloodline.

        Editing in the full quote so that my own interpretations of intent don't throw people off:
        The template stacking rules in 1e were designed to prevent players from creating Vampire/Werewolf/Mage monstrosities and becoming "too powerful." When we did Vampire 2e nine years later, it became clear that was not the problem it had seemed to be at the beginning, and that trying to solve it the way we had had created another problem: that players thought "major/minor template" was an in-setting thing, that vampires and mages had something metaphysical in common and that ghouls and wolf-blooded had something _different_ in common.

        That's not the case. Vampires and mages are two entirely different phenomena, with no magical traits in common from an in-character perspective. Vampires and werewolves... well, they share a few things, but that's mainly by virtue of both being predators. The real common trait of monsters in the Chronicles of Darkness is that they either begin as or become human. Nothing more, nothing less.

        So in the 2e games, templates are strictly a mechanical convenience. We still don't recommend mixing monster types, and do it only rarely ourselves... but on a setting level, it's quite possible some beings could cross categories. And if that works for your individual chronicle, go ahead and do it.
        Last edited by lnodiv; 01-21-2018, 06:24 PM.

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        • #5
          Chiming on the “It’s possible, but expect more than just Power A + Power B” crowd here.

          The last time vampires and mages tried to “cross over” in canon material, we got the Tremere Liches. They aren’t certainly Kindred, and while closer to the Awakened, as of 2E it seems they are neither your average “mage with a few quirks.”


          MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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          • #6
            "The individual in question wakes up as a very confused Gangrel to the delight of Ordo Dracul researchers everywhere" would be the easy route. Imagine the surprise if the sire was a Daeva!

            In all seriousness, embracing a werewolf would probably require a handwavy in-universe explanation, as well as a fair amount of cherry picking and combining various parts of the two templates. I'd definitely rule against stacking both templates if the character is a PC. If not, the sky's the limit.

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            • #7
              I think the hardest part of embracing a werewolf is killing the werewolf.

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              • #8
                Could be a new clan, whose clan bane is chronic excruciating pain as the healing rate of the werewolf interacts with the Curse to constantly attempt to heal death. Discipline set would be a physical one reflecting the Werewolf's moon aspect, Animalism, and a strange discipline that interacts with spirits.

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                • #9
                  Great take on it! Using silver as their Bane would be a no-brainer but I like that twist of using the former regeneration as a curse. Creepy.


                  I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tabanese View Post
                    Could be a new clan, whose clan bane is chronic excruciating pain as the healing rate of the werewolf interacts with the Curse to constantly attempt to heal death. Discipline set would be a physical one reflecting the Werewolf's moon aspect, Animalism, and a strange discipline that interacts with spirits.
                    Creepy in just the way I like it. Especially how werewolf regeneration itself can be a subject of body horror, in light of the Five Pounds of Meat thread in the Werewolf forum.


                    MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                    • #11
                      There already exists a canon bloodline that is based on werewolves; Dead Wolves in the book Shadows of Mexico. The origin is only presented as a rumour, though.

                      I also did a homebrew thing for embracing werewolves here.


                      Bloodline: The Stygians
                      Ordo Dracul Mysteries: Mystery of Smoke, Revised Mystery of Živa
                      Mage The Awakening: Spell Quick Reference (single page and landscape for computer screens)

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                      • #12
                        I'd personally handle it in a manner more like the Tremere Liches than as a true blending: pick one (werewolf or vampire) and then use the tools from that gameline to push the resulting character as close to the other gameline as possible. The reasons for this are largely mechanical: you avoid the messiness of having to resolve questions such as “Blood Potency, Primal Urge, or both?” or “Humanity or Harmony?” If it's a feral vampire, it's Blood Potency and Humanity; if it's a death-touched werewolf, it's Primal Urge and Harmony.

                        This is especially true in 2e, where each gameline has its own “thematic trait mechanics” (Humanity, Harmony, Wisdom, Pilgrimage, Clarity, Cover, etc.) sometimes wildly different from each other and often quite elaborate. For the sake of the gamers' sanity, you don't want to double up on that.


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                        • #13
                          In 2E rules there is official way for half-werewolves, half-vampires - Embracing Wolf-Blooded. Wolf-Blooded are 'lesser' werewolves, with only few 'wolfish' powers, called Tell. Tells are staying with character after change into other monsters. It's all in the WtF 2E corebook. Right now, in my Werewolf game I have Ordo Dracul Daeva vampire that was Wolf-Blooded before, sister to one of PCs.
                          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 01-22-2018, 04:15 AM.


                          My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
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                          • #14
                            Well, some Wolf-blooded have Tells that would make them qualify for a definition of werewolf (note the lower case), other Tells are weird spiritual phenomena that are of no interest to this particular case. The one that turns you into Urshul on full moons is probably the best, followed by the ones that makes you go Dalu when angered or exposed to religious symbolism.


                            I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

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                            • #15
                              Well, one of the things that simplifies the situation for 2e is the understanding that once a werewolf dies, it returns to human form. Sure, it might still be half-spirit, but that human lump there could be embraced.

                              Now as to the side effects? You might look at just handing the character Coil of Zirnitra powers and stack up some supernatural merits. Wolf-blooded explicitly carry their supernatural Tell merit forward when they convert to another type, so you could just handwave it. A custom bloodline is feasible of course, and using regeneration and shape-shifting as a curse alongside silver sounds fantastic!

                              One question you might answer for yourself, however would be: is this a normal thing--this embrace of a werewolf? Or is it something that doesn't happen normally but special circumstances apply? Remember as well that there are rage triggers that would have to be passed for the werewolf to lose all blood and die without, oh, going garou and ripping the vamp to shreds--even if he actually *wanted* the embrace!

                              --Khanwulf

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