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Ceceya and Shadows of Mexico

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  • Ceceya and Shadows of Mexico

    For those who don't know, the Ceceya are one of the Lost Clans presented in Half Damned (which we may hopefully see in more details in Spilled Blood). In the book, the Ceceya are presented as a clan which ruled during the Aztec Empire, fighting "midnight wars" against the rest of the clans and conquering them as they believed the whole world was theirs to rule.

    Now, on the surface, it seems like that new lost clan clash against the material which shows up in Shadows of Mexico- according to it, there were only 4 clans before the coming of the Spaniards, with the Xotoli (which were Nosferatu like clan, only even more terrifying) being extinct event before that event. However, in the Ventrue section of the book, it does mention the existence of a fifth clan- a tyrant clan which was destroyed by the hands of their own mortal slaves.Now, when you think about it, it seems like the Ceceya could be a perfect fit for that nameless clan- a tyrannical line of undead monsters who believed themselves to be the kings of the night in ancient Mesoamerica? sounds like a perfect fit. Well, almost.

    The first problem is that according to Shadows of Mexico, the nameless clan was lost long before Spaniards came to ancient Mexico, long enough for all to forget their name. In Half Damned, however, the Ceceya were destroyed by the Spaniard vampires themselves (with the help of the oppressed local clans), and were later revived as a Dynasty by a failed Cruac ritual preformed by a dhampir carrying the blood of those ancient dead- so not that long ago. Now, we could simply say that this is a part where 2e change things from 1e, but it may have another explanation. After all, in SoM, the "nameless clan" story was mostly used as a cautionary tale, a warning. Saying that the Ceceya were not loved by the other clan would be an understatement. As such, it would make sense that the clans of that Era would do their best to erase the memory of the clan which they helped to destroy- especially since, as it turned out, by doing so they allowed the Ventrue to take over in their place- and calling that a "messing up" would big even bigger understatement. From here, we can see that the vampires of Mexico have enough reasons to try to erase the existence of the Ceceya- both for their hatred toward the tyrant clan, and both for the fact that it reminds them how they helped their own future enslavers to take over. As such, that only make sense for the Ceceya to be reduced to nothing more than a strange tale about undead vampires existing in a cursed city- that is, until someone was foolish enough to awaken the old blood back to undeath.

    The second problem is that the european vampires (a.k.a, the Ventrue), are presented as "new and strange" in the eyes of the Ceceya. That makes me think that the original tyrants of Mexico didn't had Dominate as their signature discipline. As SoM doesn't explicitly say that the lost clan had Dominate, it does say that the most common belief is that they were Ventrue like. Again, the modern Kindred have reasons to forget their history and mix truth with fiction, and the Ceceya does feel close to the Ventrue on a thematic level. Perhaps they did had Dominate, but only in some variant form (as some people have suggested to make the Pijavicia's Protean)? Or maybe their discipline was similar to Dominate, yet still different? Or maybe it was an whole different thing, and they simply occupied the same niche while having some truly distinct powers? And maybe, just maybe, the "new and strange" thing is not reference to the blood magics of the Ceceya at all, and the blood tyrant knew Dominate just as well as the invading Ventrue?

    So- what do you think?


    My Homebrew Signature

    "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

    I now blog in here

  • #2
    First, are the European vampires new and strange because of the Ventrue (and thus Dominate) or because of the Lancea Sanctum (and thus Theban Sorcery) - genuine question - I can't recall if it specifies, and don't have it to hand right now.

    If you don't want them to have Dominate, you could posit that there were two clans Nosferatu - while that would give them the same Disciplines (or perhaps one of them had Resilience instead of Vigor, the way I think the Julii ought to have had VIgor instead of Resilience), their origins and culture could still be very different. If the Xolotl were associated with the depths of the Underworld and the Ceceya with the terrors of the gods, they could have quite different roles among Mezoamerican vaampires. And perhaps the Ceceya exterminated the Xolotl because they wanted Nightmare all to themselves - setting the stage for their later tyranny.

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    • #3
      Your theory about the retelling of the Ceceya demise by mesoamerican vampires has value, and it has precedents in that region.

      Some historicians believe that the story about Moctezuma believing Cortés and the Spaniards being Quetzalcoatl and the gods is a later story. According this theory, the natives, AFTER being conquered, wrote that story in order to make sense of their defeat, and accomodating it to their ancestral beliefs.

      The same could have happened with aztec vampires: "NO! We didn't help the spaniards to destroy our ruling clan and to conquer us! Thise vampires were tyrants, so we destroyed them begore the arrival of Spaniards. We're victims, not accomplices."


      LAND OF THE DAMNED: SPAIN (Spanish): Land of the Damned: Spain, Kingdoms of Blood: Spain; Cities of the Damned: Barcelona, Valencia, Carthian Constitution (1812), Three Arrows Pact:

      OTHERS (Spanish): Demon: The Redemption, Bloodlines: The Forgotten

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      • #4
        Another possibility could be just the opposite: the Ceceya history is a fake and the true history is from Shadows of México.

        The Ceceya would be the lost clan exterminated by other clans before the Spanish Comquest because they were tyrants.

        When they were recreated ritually as revenants, they created a fake tale in which they were the victims from Spaniards, and the rest of clans traitors who helped the invaders.
        Last edited by Uxas; 02-09-2018, 09:47 AM.


        LAND OF THE DAMNED: SPAIN (Spanish): Land of the Damned: Spain, Kingdoms of Blood: Spain; Cities of the Damned: Barcelona, Valencia, Carthian Constitution (1812), Three Arrows Pact:

        OTHERS (Spanish): Demon: The Redemption, Bloodlines: The Forgotten

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        • #5
          I would enjoy seeing either options. I wonder if we'll get more in Spilled Blood :P


          My Homebrew Signature

          "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

          I now blog in here

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          • #6
            Both directions sound pretty interesting as setting fodder. As an aside, i get this idea that the Ceceya might have used something like a version of Nightmare gone awry with weird devotions as a tool of domination/terror, as an alternative of sorts.

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