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[Thought Experiment] New Lost Clans

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  • [Thought Experiment] New Lost Clans

    So, prompted by discussions in other threads - on how a Clan's Discipline spread is representative of what kind of Vampire they are - what kinds of Vampire/Clan would other Discipline spread suggest?

    What kind of Vampire would fit Majesty, Animalism, and Obfuscate? Or Nightmare, Animalism, and Celerity? Or Dominate, Obfuscate, and Vigor? For examples.


    Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
    Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

  • #2
    Let's see.

    Majesty, Animalism, Obfuscate. Pre-Roman Britannia. The god of the sacred grove walks among the mortals. It is unseen, but its presence is felt. No wolves attack the village. No strangers with ill intentions make it past the sacred woods. The forest is old and full of the god's power. If you enter, only by its will can you leave. Who knows how many bones of would-be invaders litter the ground in the darkness of thick canopies? When the god decides to show itself, announced by the words of the elder druid who partakes of the god's blood, onlookers fall to their knees in awe and obey the commands of their beloved protector. The town lives in harmony. But not all is perfect. How can it be? Unlike the god, mortals are not perfect. Speak ill of your protector, as difficult as it may seem, and chaos descends. Orgies of violence, packs of wild animals attacking the unfaithful, and in the middle of it all, it stands. Calm, unseen yet glorious, the eye of the storm. You've heard this story before. Many times. We all have. That is why you know what you are required to do and why you will do it. I know she is your only daughter, but the god must not become displeased. Send her into the forest. For all our sakes.

    Now, here's the issue. What archetype or theme would this clan embody? The devs did a really good job of designing the five clans for Requiem. They pretty much covered all the archetypes of (European) vampire fiction and gave each at least one physical Discipline for the sake of balance. As the game progressed, sure, other clans were added, but to me, they seem more as different flavors of existing types. The Julii embody power and conquest, putting them under the "lord of the night" vampire. Pijavica have their whole Tzimisce-ish bizarre blood blob thing (I'll never get tired of writing that) which would put them into the "vampire as terrifying monster" category. Jiang Shi have... Actually, I don't know what they have, I'll have to read up on them.

    Back to the aforementioned druid wannabe clan, what would be their theme? In which category would the clan fit? No idea, honestly. Thoughts?

    Does a homemade clan even need to fit an archetype or is it okay for you to just go wild and throw Disciplines at a new clan at random?



    Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
    What kind of Vampire would fit...Dominate, Obfuscate, and Vigor?
    THE BEST KIND. That's a perfect Discipline spread. I hope it doesn't say anything about me, heh.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Malkav's Weird Cousin View Post

      Back to the aforementioned druid wannabe clan, what would be their theme? In which category would the clan fit? No idea, honestly. Thoughts?
      Vampire as figure of sacrifice (to)? Being of the wild?

      Originally posted by Malkav's Weird Cousin View Post
      THE BEST KIND. That's a perfect Discipline spread. I hope it doesn't say anything about me, heh.
      It's a great "unseen manipulators" group. Move unseen, possibly mind-tweak people right in front of others, break the necks of those who resist. Their failing would be they are fragile (in comparison) once they are found out. No Celerity for defense/dodging, no Resilience to tank damage, no Nightmare to scare off attackers that don't look at your eyes or get in strangle range.


      Malkydel: "And the Machine dictated; let there be adequate illumination."
      Yossarian: "And lo, it was optimal."

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      • #4
        Nightmare+Animalism+Celerity: A lot of vampiric creatures were conflated with lycanthropic ones and/or witches in folklore. This Discipline spread seems to fit that well; the Big Bad Wolf chasing you down the woods, or the Witch of the Wilds with her illusions and familiar spirits.


        MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Malkav's Weird Cousin View Post
          Jiang Shi have... Actually, I don't know what they have, I'll have to read up on them.
          Originally posted by Satchel View Post
          A Jiang Shi at the apex of their Disciplines' powers has access to two abilities that specifically allow them to influence a large area with their more basic powers and can move extremely fast in a fashion that outwardly resembles uncanny teleportation. The quintessential Phantom is a master of their domain, and moves through it with preternatural speed; their memories are long, and though their touch may be fleeting it is inescapable. These are the territorial tenants of moldering crypts and haunted mansions and inauspicious copses; they scatter blood by the gallon and seize hearts in their chilling grasp; they are the curses of hungry ghosts upon the lands of their death.
          Originally posted by Vent0 View Post
          Their failing would be they are fragile (in comparison) once they are found out.
          The flipside of this is vertical superiority — Vigor benefits climbing, throwing objects, and especially jumping, which suggests a great deal of rooftop escapades and a more consistent keep-away game in contrast with how Celerity does it. I could see some locales having territorial conflicts with Strix with a clan like that, but that could just be a matter of striking imagery.


          Resident Sanguinary Analyst
          Currently Consuming: Changeling: the Lost 1e

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          • #6
            With Dominate and Obfuscate you have the Shadow, master of hypnotism and stealth. Not the archetype but you have classic mystery man powers, especially once you factor in the physical discipline.

            There's not a wide variety of disciplines, until you count bloodlines. You're obviously meant to do more with Devotions which, thankfully, aren't as expensive as they were. Still, it would be neat to find some rare or lost non-clan disciplines. Things that have been barred for some reason or another, or just aren't practiced due to the differences between modern times and the long-long ago. Looks like based on WoDCodex we had a few in first, like the spirit-focused Blood Tenebrous, Breath-Drinking, the Malkavian affliction of Dementation, the Moulding Room's unlocked Detournement, potentially the Sleeper Program's Psychogenics and arguably the Harbingers Thanatology. Some are contingent of special advantages but they, and the bloodline disciplines, at least nod towards the potential disciplines have.
            Last edited by nofather; 01-25-2018, 02:51 AM.

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            • #7
              I have personally wrote two Lost Clans for V:tR- Clan Grettir and Clan Mumvuri. The Grettir have access to Resilience, Vigor and Auspex, presenting them as the "perfect soldiers" (they are strong, they are tough and they know every weakness and mistake their opponent would do event before the battle even began). The Mumvuri, on the other hand, have Animalism, Vigor and Dominate to style them as the lords of the wasteland (Vigor to hunt their prey, and Animalism and Vigor to force their prey to respect their predator. More of lion than wolves, when compared to the Gangrel).

              After talking about the subject in one of the threads with SunlessNick , I have a strong vision of the Ceceya having Nightmare, together with Animalism and Resilience (which would fit them as a clan of Tyrants, as some sort of dark mirror to the Ventrue). The Xotolol, mesoamerican Nosferatu, may have Nightmare+Vigor+Resilience (so they were unable to hide their deformities).

              Now, if we were to count the number of possible Discipline combination and exclude any bloodline/covenant specific Disciplines (as most 1e Bloodline Disciplines should be Devotions in 2e), and claim that now clan may have two Unique Disciplines (Majesty, Dominate, etc), we'll get 8 combinations per Unique Discipline, which is a total of 64 Clans (if we were to include the Formosae). If we were to also consider the potential of Clans which have Discipline combination made totally of common Disciplines (like the Jiang Shi), we'll get 10 extra combinations, moving the count to 74 Clans. We could reduce that number by simply homebrewing that the Jiang Shi are not yet a complete Clan, and when they'll be Kindred their Discipline spread would change (probably giving them Auspex in exchange for Celerity, unless they would develop a new Discipline, which would add 8 more combinations to the count- so let's avoid that choice for now). If we were to consider cases such as the Pijavicia, which have the same Disciplines as the Gangrel but a different Bane, we'll get an unlimited number of potential clans, This could be bound by either treating the Pijavicia as "proto Gangrel" (like Hollow Mekhet), changing one of their Disciplines (like Animalism to Obfuscate) or to give them a new unique Discipline (like presented in here), which would rise the count to 82 Clans (or 72, if we were to change the Jiang Shi's spread). Finally, if we were to include fan clans, we also have Clans Alukah or the Shiryo, which both have different versions of a Discipline which manipulates the veil, which could be either united to the same Discipline or used as two independent Disciplines, giving us a count of 98/90/80 Clans, depending on how you count.

              Long story short, there are a lot of potential Clans for us to deal with, which is always a nice thing. I am fond of the Druid/Shepherd Clan concept Malkav's Weird Cousin suggested. It does seems to have a potential, IMO.


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              • #8
                So I've gave a rough looks through the 1e Bloodline Disciplines list in order to search for potential new "unique disciplines", and those are the ones which I couldn't mentally tear apart into Devotions of other Disciplines or similar special Gifts-

                - Cachexy (for it is officially a new 2e Discipline)
                - Carrefour (a power based around thresholds and boundaries)
                - Bhumisparsa (defense enhancement discipline)
                - Constance (resolve enhancement discipline)
                - Crochan (health manipulation, could be used to describe Devotions from other, blood manipulating disciplines)

                Bhumispara and Constance are almost 100% likely to be good material for independent Clans, IMO. The fact that there are many bloodlines which have the "can only feed from victims which are X" Bane makes me to feel that perhaps those bloodlines were once a part of another Lost Clan which was absorbed by the Mekhet. For the others, I need to think about (maybe we'll know more about Crochan in Dark Eras 2, as the Bron may be updated in there)


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                • #9
                  I think it's worth ruling that every clan's Discipline spread must have at leaast one of the psysical ones. (Although a weakened version of Praestantia that only provides the Dexterity boosting effect might be usuable for that purpose too).

                  I've mentioned in a few threads that I think the Julii ought to have had VIgor rather than Resilience. The reason is that they were a vampiric embodiment of Rome itself, and the Requiem for Rome supplement was set in the Empire's dying days. Animalism, Dominate, and Vigor fits a clan that can still project great (both real and illusory) strength, but which is doomed not to endure.
                  But there are many empires throughout history that could have a clan in that role.

                  Cachexy of course plays up vampires as a disease metaphor. To preserve the Morbus's historical role, it's probably worth saying that a clan who have it as their signature evolved elsewhere, and the Morbus found its potential independently. To produce vampires who represent plague and pestilence, you could have Animalism (for plague-carrying swarms) or Obfuscate (for invisible death). Resilience seems like the appropriat physical Discipline.
                  I quite like the feel of Animalism, Cachexy, and Resilience sending plagues to assail populations and regions over and above the vampire's own predations. (They'd need a weakness other than feeding on the diseased, though, because that's too easy to arrange).

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SunlessNick View Post
                    I've mentioned in a few threads that I think the Julii ought to have had VIgor rather than Resilience. The reason is that they were a vampiric embodiment of Rome itself, and the Requiem for Rome supplement was set in the Empire's dying days. Animalism, Dominate, and Vigor fits a clan that can still project great (both real and illusory) strength, but which is doomed not to endure.
                    The Julii in Thousand Years of Night now have Resilience, Vigor, and Dominate as their Discipline spread. They also have a clan bane that caps their ability to resist strix and ephemeral entities powers equal to the Julii's humanity. I think the change in Bane was to distance themselves from the Ventrue clan bane for 2e, seeing as they were very similar in 1e.

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                    • #11
                      If I'm not mistaken, the Discipline change was stated to make the Julii more "roman" (Animalism is far too of witchcraft, while Vigor and Resilience represent that yes, they are that good, and you bow before them because you know you should, not because of some blood magic- even though it is a blatant lie). The change in Bane was made, I believe, to tie them better to their origin story mostly.


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by LostLight View Post
                        If I'm not mistaken, the Discipline change was stated to make the Julii more "roman" (Animalism is far too of witchcraft, while Vigor and Resilience represent that yes, they are that good, and you bow before them because you know you should, not because of some blood magic- even though it is a blatant lie). The change in Bane was made, I believe, to tie them better to their origin story mostly.
                        Ah, that makes sense. I only started when 2e came out, so I don't know as much about the first edition stuff. I forgot that the Julii didn't like considering themselves to be capable of magic.

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                        • #13
                          Unregulated magic. They had no problem with the highly ritualized Veneficia, for example.


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                          • #14
                            That's a lot of good ideas right here. The devs really opened the floodgates when they started throwing in more and more lost clans.

                            I agree that every clan should have at least one physical Discipline. It's a rule which I used when I ran some clanless chronicles. Of course, all three physical Disciplines would be a bit too much...

                            In the case of the aforementioned Celtic shamans, I'd get rid of Majesty and put in... well, whatever works. Celerity, Resilience, Vigor, you can find a good reasoning for any of the three. Losing Majesty would mesh well with the theme of having to use various other powers at their disposal to present themselves as gods to the local mortal population. Something like Mekhet Shadow Cults.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Thorbes View Post
                              Unregulated magic. They had no problem with the highly ritualized Veneficia, for example.
                              I meant that their claim was that being a Julii wasn't a magic. Julii are strong because they are Julii. They are tough because they are Julii. Mortals and Kindred obey them because they are Julii. Learning magic is allowed, when do in an appropriate way which respects the gods- but the Julii aren't magical. They are simply that good.

                              Again, filthy lie, but that's what helped them to sleep at day.


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                              "And all our knowledge is, Ourselves to know"- An Essay on Man

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