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(Help Wanted) Giving Requiem Second Edition a Second Chance

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Camilla View Post
    Thanks for the advice, I am definitely buying Vampire: The Requiem 2e the next time I get paid!

    That's great. It's a really awesome game and you can play it how you want to! I have done murder mysteries, occult take overs, personal horror, and well. a crazy game where it's sort of like Sword Art online... You really can do anything you want with it.

    I have seen over and over and over ( and you even mentioned it up there as part of the problem) people come on here hating on Humanity, or Mask and dirge or touchstones, or conditions, but they don't really know how they work to begin with. So they come looking for solutions to change it when they dont really understand what it is they are changing.

    Touchstones really seem intimidating on paper, but I have found that players with a good grasp of role playing add them in without even knowing that they are creating a touchstone. For example, your player might write this beautiful backstory where their vampire goes to snoop on their daughter as she grows up. They do it from the shadows or send them letters or maybe even phone calls. Their daughter is important to the character and who they are because it's in the back story. Literally all you do is add the label "Touchstone" and boom. It's done. Very rarely will a good player just slap dots on paper and say good to go without some sort of backstory. So you just have to talk to them and figure out what their touchstone is.... After that the rest just sort of falls into place.

    They get +2 to humanity checks because maybe they think something like. "I just accidentally killed this guy, but my daughter might think i am a monster if I keep doing it... so I wont." Then your character feels a little remorse and they hang on to their humanity a little longer.


    ~~~

    It's the same for conditions. Most good players already take care of that stuff. If they are an addict, they act like an addict. If they are mesmerized they act mesmerized the book just gives them some extra guidelines on how to fix it or dice to deal with it. Or mechanical effects if your characters want to shoot their foe in the foot or the hand or something. It's there to help you stay consistent and not have to wing it. They really arent too bad and you really can just drop the ones you dont use. Like my group has never encountered Soulless -shrugs-

    ~~~

    Humanity scale doesnt have to really be a personal horror thing or a negative.. much of the time it is just ...common sense. You fall into torpor 10 times because of whatever reason, eventually you lose a humanity for it and it stops having such an impact on you. Same with something like Murder.. Your character does it enough they would get desensitized to it ...and thus their humanity has fallen to such a point to reflect that disreguard for human life. Most of my players do this without even thinking about it.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Vitalis View Post


      That's great. It's a really awesome game and you can play it how you want to! I have done murder mysteries, occult take overs, personal horror, and well. a crazy game where it's sort of like Sword Art online... You really can do anything you want with it.

      I have seen over and over and over ( and you even mentioned it up there as part of the problem) people come on here hating on Humanity, or Mask and dirge or touchstones, or conditions, but they don't really know how they work to begin with. So they come looking for solutions to change it when they dont really understand what it is they are changing.

      Touchstones really seem intimidating on paper, but I have found that players with a good grasp of role playing add them in without even knowing that they are creating a touchstone. For example, your player might write this beautiful backstory where their vampire goes to snoop on their daughter as she grows up. They do it from the shadows or send them letters or maybe even phone calls. Their daughter is important to the character and who they are because it's in the back story. Literally all you do is add the label "Touchstone" and boom. It's done. Very rarely will a good player just slap dots on paper and say good to go without some sort of backstory. So you just have to talk to them and figure out what their touchstone is.... After that the rest just sort of falls into place.

      They get +2 to humanity checks because maybe they think something like. "I just accidentally killed this guy, but my daughter might think i am a monster if I keep doing it... so I wont." Then your character feels a little remorse and they hang on to their humanity a little longer.


      ~~~

      It's the same for conditions. Most good players already take care of that stuff. If they are an addict, they act like an addict. If they are mesmerized they act mesmerized the book just gives them some extra guidelines on how to fix it or dice to deal with it. Or mechanical effects if your characters want to shoot their foe in the foot or the hand or something. It's there to help you stay consistent and not have to wing it. They really arent too bad and you really can just drop the ones you dont use. Like my group has never encountered Soulless -shrugs-

      ~~~

      Humanity scale doesnt have to really be a personal horror thing or a negative.. much of the time it is just ...common sense. You fall into torpor 10 times because of whatever reason, eventually you lose a humanity for it and it stops having such an impact on you. Same with something like Murder.. Your character does it enough they would get desensitized to it ...and thus their humanity has fallen to such a point to reflect that disreguard for human life. Most of my players do this without even thinking about it.

      I do love the role-playing aspects of Requiem and rarely do I just slap dots on a character sheet, so this is good news to know for me! Like I said earlier, I dismissed a lot of the 2e mechanics without actually checking them out due to fearing change.

      Would you be interested in an online Requiem game? I've been wanting to run one for a while lately, and while I don't have 2e yet, I could run it with 1e or run it freeform until I can get 2e at the beginning of the month.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Vitalis View Post
        Nice stuff
        Chronicles of Darkness: Where We Name Roleplaying Fluff And Common Sense So We Can Give You Cookies For It

        (Okay, that may sound a bit mocking, but I honestly see that as the main merit of these games)


        MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Camilla View Post


          I do love the role-playing aspects of Requiem and rarely do I just slap dots on a character sheet, so this is good news to know for me! Like I said earlier, I dismissed a lot of the 2e mechanics without actually checking them out due to fearing change.

          Would you be interested in an online Requiem game? I've been wanting to run one for a while lately, and while I don't have 2e yet, I could run it with 1e or run it freeform until I can get 2e at the beginning of the month.

          I would be very interested in playing a game. I do enjoy second edition over first ( and I have played both ) I find second makes more balanced characters. I actually play a couple games over Google Hangouts. Also, I bet you would get tons of takers if you were to post that you are willing to actually ~RUN~ a game.

          PM me if you'd like.

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          • #20
            Everyone's talked about mechanics so far, but regarding the fluff:

            Strix are easy enough to take out - they're mostly confined to one chapter. One of the options for the truth behind VII links them to the birds, but there are others.

            The God Machine you don't have to take out - the only reference to it is another option for VII - it's not a part of Vampire's mythos.

            Belial's Brood you would have to put back in - they seem to have taken the devil worshipper faction out of every game so far - I'm hoping it's for a new version of Inferno.

            The fog of eternity is alluded to in the descrption of torpor (though without the term) - it's something thar sometimes happens, so it would be easy enough to make it more common.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Vitalis View Post


              I would be very interested in playing a game. I do enjoy second edition over first ( and I have played both ) I find second makes more balanced characters. I actually play a couple games over Google Hangouts. Also, I bet you would get tons of takers if you were to post that you are willing to actually ~RUN~ a game.

              PM me if you'd like.

              I'll definitely do my best to send you a PM with my ideas for Requiem chronicles.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Vitalis View Post


                I would be very interested in playing a game. I do enjoy second edition over first ( and I have played both ) I find second makes more balanced characters. I actually play a couple games over Google Hangouts. Also, I bet you would get tons of takers if you were to post that you are willing to actually ~RUN~ a game.

                PM me if you'd like.

                I prefer the 2nd edition over the 1st for a lot of reasons (new BP system, disciplines restyle, no FOE, and other fluff) but I'm not really sure I can consider it more balanced XD
                Well, maybe under the point that now, every discipline, is enough powerful and useful in its environment (animalism comes in mind), but more often, in my games (and my players share the same view of me) happens that who win the first roll (clash or contested) wins the match as well. I'm not just referring to fights; I'm thinking even to Dominate/Majesty.
                Moreover there is Auspex that seems to me really hard to manage.... the first two dots don't even have a contested roll and with the right questions they can provide you quite every information (heaven, and other stuffs) that can broke the intrigue and the plot.

                Except for this, for me 2nd ed is much more superior to 1st ed.
                Last edited by Marcus; 02-22-2018, 05:53 AM.

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                • #23
                  if your not a fan of humanity and touchstones have a look at atrocity alt rules.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Marcus View Post


                    I prefer the 2nd edition over the 1st for a lot of reasons (new BP system, disciplines restyle, no FOE, and other fluff) but I'm not really sure I can consider it more balanced XD
                    Well, maybe under the point that now, every discipline, is enough powerful and useful in its environment (animalism comes in mind), but more often, in my games (and my players share the same view of me) happens that who win the first roll (clash or contested) wins the match as well. I'm not just referring to fights; I'm thinking even to Dominate/Majesty.
                    Moreover there is Auspex that seems to me really hard to manage.... the first two dots don't even have a contested roll and with the right questions they can provide you quite every information (heaven, and other stuffs) that can broke the intrigue and the plot.

                    Except for this, for me 2nd ed is much more superior to 1st ed.

                    I didn't say the game was more balanced I said it made for more balanced characters. When our group of 8 face to face players played for a year in first edition then in mid campaign we decided to switch to second edition with the same characters it balanced those characters out a lot.

                    For example, I spent almost all of my exp on blood potency so my character had nothing else but BP 6 and dot 4 and 5 of majesty. I couldnt afford anything else because of the insane cost of getting dots 4 and 5 and BP so literally he was just at starter level of everything else. We took that 130? exp and divided it by 5 ( because 5 beats make 1 exp ) and then respent our exp in the same way. 7 out of 8 of us ended up with more exp to spend to create more balanced characters.




                    And I disagree with Auspex 1 and 2 being game breakers. Auspex 1 can "only answer immediate questions about danger or weakness" not where super secret plot devices are if they wont hurt you right now. Level 2 can answer questions about secrets and weakness for one target and it costs 1 vitae for every use after the first, so it is draining... and they have to know what sort of question to ask. "Does this guy have a super secret plot device?" is probably not going to cut it.

                    "is he the murderer we are looking for." probably doesnt either. " Is he lying to me?" Well yes... yes he is a vampire, that';s what they do.

                    Maybe that's not really a secret or a weakness. maybe 100 other people know, but just not you. And if you are honestly worried that they will break the plot with their auspex, just give them a vision that could be interpreted in more than one way or change the baddie. Adapt to the situation. maybe they got lucky and caught the guy all too easy, just make him a puppet for a bigger badder guy.
                    Last edited by Vitalis; 02-22-2018, 10:24 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Vitalis View Post


                      I didn't say the game was more balanced I said it made for more balanced characters. When our group of 8 face to face players played for a year in first edition then in mid campaign we decided to switch to second edition with the same characters it balanced those characters out a lot.

                      For example, I spent almost all of my exp on blood potency so my character had nothing else but BP 6 and dot 4 and 5 of majesty. I couldnt afford anything else because of the insane cost of getting dots 4 and 5 and BP so literally he was just at starter level of everything else. We took that 130? exp and divided it by 5 ( because 5 beats make 1 exp ) and then respent our exp in the same way. 7 out of 8 of us ended up with more exp to spend to create more balanced characters.




                      And I disagree with Auspex 1 and 2 being game breakers. Auspex 1 can "only answer immediate questions about danger or weakness" not where super secret plot devices are if they wont hurt you right now. Level 2 can answer questions about secrets and weakness for one target and it costs 1 vitae for every use after the first, so it is draining... and they have to know what sort of question to ask. "Does this guy have a super secret plot device?" is probably not going to cut it.

                      "is he the murderer we are looking for." probably doesnt either. " Is he lying to me?" Well yes... yes he is a vampire, that';s what they do.

                      Maybe that's not really a secret or a weakness. maybe 100 other people know, but just not you. And if you are honestly worried that they will break the plot with their auspex, just give them a vision that could be interpreted in more than one way or change the baddie. Adapt to the situation. maybe they got lucky and caught the guy all too easy, just make him a puppet for a bigger badder guy.

                      Ok, now I get your balanced point

                      About Auspex: yes it's true that you must ask for the right question but, since the description says: it reveal the secret ... and you have any suspicious about a character that could or could not have killed the prince (just an absurd example), the first question with Auspex 2 could be: Have he killed the prince? And I will overflight on Auspex 4 that, at least, has a contested roll XD

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Marcus View Post


                        Ok, now I get your balanced point

                        About Auspex: yes it's true that you must ask for the right question but, since the description says: it reveal the secret ... and you have any suspicious about a character that could or could not have killed the prince (just an absurd example), the first question with Auspex 2 could be: Have he killed the prince? And I will overflight on Auspex 4 that, at least, has a contested roll XD

                        I don't think Auspex works like that, otherwise everyone would have it or at least every Prince or Sheriff. They would just call a meeting at Elysium any time something happened and would just one by one. "Did s/he do it?" Until auspex said "Yes"

                        I think you could ask, "Is he a murderer?" and get a yes, but not "did he kill Bob?" Personally I think that's out of the scope of Auspex. It's not a direct thing. For one of the sample questions it states, "Is he a diablerist?" Not "Who did he Diablerize?"

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                        • #27
                          The only piece of advice I would like to add about Touchstones: in my experience, it's easier to have your players nominate Merits on their sheets as their Touchstones (whether it's in the form of Retainer, Allies, Contacts, etc). Because it encourages your players to interact with those characters in a way that makes them useful and meaningful beyond being a 'humanity pet'. It also gives them more screen time, which is important as it lets you develop and flesh out their characters in a way that will (hopefully) win over your players - otherwise, there's a risk of them having about as much screen time and importance as the parents in Ed, Edd n Eddy. Speaking from personal experience.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Jack View Post
                            The only piece of advice I would like to add about Touchstones: in my experience, it's easier to have your players nominate Merits on their sheets as their Touchstones (whether it's in the form of Retainer, Allies, Contacts, etc). Because it encourages your players to interact with those characters in a way that makes them useful and meaningful beyond being a 'humanity pet'. It also gives them more screen time, which is important as it lets you develop and flesh out their characters in a way that will (hopefully) win over your players - otherwise, there's a risk of them having about as much screen time and importance as the parents in Ed, Edd n Eddy. Speaking from personal experience.

                            While I have never seen that show, I am going to say that parents are a prime example of a touchstone. Screen time or not. Most, (not all) people have a significant tie to the people who spent 18+ years taking care of them. Good or Bad tie. they keep you grounded in what it was like to be human. Touchstones have has much or as little actual screen time as a player wants. If they never want to have that meaningful conversation for the willpower, they dont have to.

                            My only concern with Retainer, allies and contacts is that those people are generally "work friends" and are ultimately less important to your soul than a parent and thus lose the meaning behind what it is suppose to be. It's too easy to make those things empty. I am not a one size fits all person, so yes, some cases those things would be perfect. Military buddies/allies you would lay down your life for them. Or a cop's partner.. they become more than just a work friend. or someone you contact when you need something.
                            Last edited by Vitalis; 02-22-2018, 01:26 PM.

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                            • #29
                              I find that the new Humanity system, with the Touchstones, work much better than the old Humanity system did. I would suggest giving it a try before dismissing it. You can always scrap it later if you find you don't like it.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Vitalis View Post
                                My only concern with Retainer, allies and contacts is that those people are generally "work friends" and are ultimately less important to your soul than a parent and thus lose the meaning behind what it is suppose to be.
                                I've always liked the idea of a rich debutante-type vampire whose Touchstone is a high-dot Retainer, taking the form of her butler/caretaker who raised her while her parents were out being ruthless businesspeople. The conflict centers around how they have this close, father-daughter style relationship where he's always protected and cared for her...but now she's a blood-drinking corpse whose needs are pretty far out of his realm of expertise. There's even a great plot hook with her decision of whether to turn him into a ghoul or not; how that'd change their relationship utterly, but also whether or not she can watch him slowly age and die when she knows she can do something about it.

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