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(Help Wanted) Giving Requiem Second Edition a Second Chance

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  • #31
    There's nothing wrong with using Merits to have Touchstones that are also [insert whatever Merit], to show they're part of the game beyond an emotional tie. But I don't think it should be directly encouraged, especially for more "group" Merits like Contacts or Allies. Your spy network isn't one person that's a Touchstone, and is questionable as a more abstract Touchstone that keeps you grounded.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Gellydog View Post

      I've always liked the idea of a rich debutante-type vampire whose Touchstone is a high-dot Retainer, taking the form of her butler/caretaker who raised her while her parents were out being ruthless businesspeople. The conflict centers around how they have this close, father-daughter style relationship where he's always protected and cared for her...but now she's a blood-drinking corpse whose needs are pretty far out of his realm of expertise. There's even a great plot hook with her decision of whether to turn him into a ghoul or not; how that'd change their relationship utterly, but also whether or not she can watch him slowly age and die when she knows she can do something about it.
      That is a good example of what could be a touchstone! Just remember that they are meant to keep you human.

      I am in the camp of touchstones can be ghouls. so it works for me.


      Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
      There's nothing wrong with using Merits to have Touchstones that are also [insert whatever Merit], to show they're part of the game beyond an emotional tie. But I don't think it should be directly encouraged, especially for more "group" Merits like Contacts or Allies. Your spy network isn't one person that's a Touchstone, and is questionable as a more abstract Touchstone that keeps you grounded.
      Agreed! I had a player who wanted his hacker (contacts) buddies to be his touchstone. I was like... ummm.. no??
      Then he wanted his Magic cards to be his touchstone.... and I was like.. Umm..... nooo????
      ( After like 3 more attempts at strange things... we finally settled on his pet Turtle... -sigh- )
      Last edited by Vitalis; 02-23-2018, 06:14 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Vitalis View Post
        Then he wanted his Magic cards to be his touchstone.... and I was like.. Umm..... nooo????
        This is hilarious! Also funny: I immediately started trying to think of ways to make this work.

        Touchstones are about making you feel human again, so that you can continue to relate to humans and the human condition despite not being one of them anymore. So I could see a collection of Magic cards working as a Touchstone if they put you in situations that make you feel human. For example: When you were alive, you loved collecting Magic: The Gathering cards and testing your custom decks against other people down at the local hobby shop. Now that you're dead, one of the few possessions you've held onto is your prized collection; sentimental, perhaps, but you still like to visit hobby shops every week and play in pick-up tournaments. A different place every time, so nobody notices too much, but a few hours among fellow enthusiasts, focusing on what's in their hand instead of their necks, is enough to make you feel almost...normal.

        I dunno if I'd pitch it as my primary Touchstone, but I think it'd work well as a second one bought as a merit. Changing around the location keeps the focus on the way the atmosphere and mundane situation are what makes you feel human, rather than relationships with specific people. It can lead to plot-hooks, as maybe the player notices another vampire snooping around the shop, or cause conflict with other player characters. ("Where's Frank!?" "Oh, it's Friday night; he must be down at Cardz 'n' Gamez.") And of course, a trading card collection is ever-so-easy to misplace, or be stolen... (Especially if it's known the vampire has a rare, potentially valuable card! What happens when a pushy collector wants to trade and won't take no for an answer, so he follows you back to your safe house?)

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        • #34
          On the subject of odd things being Touchstones, I really appreciated the concept of Simulacra from 1kYoN. If you really want your character to draw upon his Magic cards (no pun intended) as a means of reminding himself what it’s like to be human, fine, but it’s a Similacrum. If you want a real Touchstone, it has to be someone you have an interpersonal relationship with.
          Last edited by Charlaquin; 02-24-2018, 01:13 PM.


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          • #35
            Originally posted by Gellydog View Post

            This is hilarious! Also funny: I immediately started trying to think of ways to make this work.

            It was pretty great. He ended up taking "Addicted" for his FNM night and his cards. He kept breaking into local card shops... Do not give a MTG addicted player Obfuscate... the end! he actually did end up taking Magic as a second touchstone later on, when he killed his turtle >.>
            Last edited by Vitalis; 03-05-2018, 11:39 AM.

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            • #36
              Hi all. I keep hearing a lot about "Touchstones keeping you human" and stuff.

              I have a question though... what if you don't want to "stay human"? Are there Paths like CWoD? or are you out of luck?
              Thanks in advance.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Sidious View Post
                Hi all. I keep hearing a lot about "Touchstones keeping you human" and stuff.

                I have a question though... what if you don't want to "stay human"? Are there Paths like CWoD? or are you out of luck?
                Thanks in advance.
                The descent from human to monster is kind of the core premise of the game. That said, the philosophies represented by the Paths are certainly ones that vampires might follow. In fact, that’s exactly what the Covenants offer. A way of contectualizing your existence that allows you to live with yourself. It’s just that, naturally, embracing an such an inhuman worldview is going to lead you to lose Humanity. That’s kind of the point, you’re abandoning your Humanity in favor of being a better monster.

                So, if what you want to do is follow an inhuman moral philosophy whilst avoid all of the drawbacks that come with losing your Humanity, then yeah, you’re out of luck. But if you don’t care about staying human, that shouldn’t be a big problem.
                Last edited by Charlaquin; 05-11-2018, 03:37 PM.


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                • #38
                  To be fair, you can be a monster and just get really low Humanity. Especially with taking banes for certain breaking points you can remain at Humanity 1-3.

                  Or you can just play Beast, which seems more about playing up the monster angle.

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                  • #39
                    The core concept of the game is the struggle to retain Humanity while doing what you have to do to get through the night. There are no Paths.

                    You can, however, become "less human" by taking Banes, which makes Humanity sins no longer sins for you. You can have three.

                    If you lose all your Humanity, though, you are no longer playable as a PC.

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                    • #40
                      Got beaten to the core response I would have given, but:

                      Originally posted by nofather View Post
                      Or you can just play Beast, which seems more about playing up the monster angle.
                      While I'm all for people giving Beast a try, I really don't want this sort of preconception sitting in. Beast isn't just the CofD game without a Integrity equivalent that requires them to act a specific way to avoid becoming unplayable.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Sidious View Post
                        I have a question though... what if you don't want to "stay human"?
                        Your ability to blend in with the humans you hunt amidst is correlated to your self-control in relation to the atavistic urges of vampirism — if you don't want to stay human then you can get weirder as you adapt to increasingly long periods of time without meaningful interaction with people who aren't dead. Vampires who don't stay human don't stay people.


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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                          Got beaten to the core response I would have given, but:



                          While I'm all for people giving Beast a try, I really don't want this sort of preconception sitting in. Beast isn't just the CofD game without a Integrity equivalent that requires them to act a specific way to avoid becoming unplayable.
                          An important addendum: while the difference between Satiety and other forms of Integrity is pronounced, none of that translates into a direct abandonment of humanity, or acts that we ascribe as conducive to the nature(ie, "Not monstrous"). Life is a significant character feature, and you don't have a theme like You Don't Choose Your Family if you somehow manage to suddenly forget the species you spawned from.

                          Beasts are creatures of community, and while they may drive people to their monstrous sides in general, they do not do so in forgettance of their humanity, not by inches nor by miles, unless they really hop off the rails.

                          EDIT: Also, High Satiety still largely represents a "closer to humanity" point than not, and visa versa with Low Satiety.


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                          • #43
                            In any case, i really feel that all the Integrity equivalent are meant to represent or allow to play a struggle between your character as a person and their supernatural nature.


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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                              While I'm all for people giving Beast a try, I really don't want this sort of preconception sitting in. Beast isn't just the CofD game without a Integrity equivalent that requires them to act a specific way to avoid becoming unplayable.
                              It's not quite about the Integrity angle (as I said, vampires can linger at low Humanity just fine, it's one of the points of first editions' Circle of the Crone). It's just what the game's about. Vampire is about a struggle to retain one's humanity in the face of losing it, just like Promethean is about becoming human, and taking these things out of either game leads you to a dead end. Beast isn't about that, it can be, but it's more about striking a balance. There are other games, like Werewolf, mortal and arguably Demon that are more about 'what to do now,' but one of the added benefits of Beast is that you can effectively play a vampire, with mind control, obfuscation, blood-obsession and mysteriousness, without actually playing a vampire and all that entails.

                              I'm not suggesting it as 'the game for murderhobos' as much as the game for people want to play one game but don't like its core elements. It's how I was sold on first edition's changeling, as your changeling's Durance allows it to come out with the trappings of other gamelines. Though their sorcery left much to be desired, and obviously there's strong motivations built in that keep you from playing up the mein too much.
                              Last edited by nofather; 05-12-2018, 01:23 AM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Maitrecorbo View Post
                                In any case, i really feel that all the Integrity equivalent are meant to represent or allow to play a struggle between your character as a person and their supernatural nature.
                                It’s kind of at the heart of CofD as a whole. The question of what it means to be human, as viewed through the eyes of monsters. That’s why moral philosophies that reject the human element of the vampire do work in Requiem, but Paths as replacements for the Humanity stat don’t.


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