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Has anyone else noticed the change in mood between 1st and 2nd Edition?

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  • Has anyone else noticed the change in mood between 1st and 2nd Edition?

    What I mean is the way both books are written and the art direction, both are excellent but... To me it seemed that first edition took itself more "seriously" and managed to paint a bleak, nuanced world where everything seemed to happen behind a stage curtain, the writing itself was straightforward.

    2nd edition had this cynical humor in its writing, as if the book didn't take itself seriously especially with the pop culture references tossed here and there, I'm not saying it's a bad thing I actually enjoyed reading it more than it's predecessor but it changed the way I feel about Requiem, it lost some of the nuance and it feels more "in your face" now.

  • #2
    I also noticed it, I'm inclined to use first edition for flavour except for the bit about no new emotions.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Live Bait View Post
      I also noticed it, I'm inclined to use first edition for flavour except for the bit about no new emotions.
      1st edition was urban horror behind closed doors, I'm not sure what 2nd edition tried to do but I'm not a very big fan of it.

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      • #4
        That sums it up nicely, the Masquerade just dosen't feel as secure in 2nd. I'm a big fan of the changes they made to the rules but the flavour doesn't really work for me.
        Last edited by Live Bait; 03-10-2018, 08:40 AM.

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        • #5
          Predator's Taint and smartphones as perfect Masquerade busters makes me think 1e is the ultimate iteration of Vampire for comedic purposes, and how I have no emotions, and that makes me sad.

          In the unlikely event that Predator's Taint causing all vampire encounters to devolve into an orgy of violence stops making you laugh (years later it still works for me), page through the unwavering negativity of The Blood and marvel as how absolutely everything makes you a terrible person.

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          • #6
            I always thought Requiem 2E summed up as "Fight, Feed, Fuck, but try to at least pretend nice."


            MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 21C Hermit View Post
              I always thought Requiem 2E summed up as "Fight, Feed, Fuck, but try to at least pretend nice."
              In a way, but it's an immature take on personal horror as I see it, tbh. Despite its flaws 1E had some elegance to it.

              However it doesn't really stop us to play the game the way we see it does it?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Shawarbaaz View Post

                In a way, but it's an immature take on personal horror as I see it, tbh. Despite its flaws 1E had some elegance to it.

                However it doesn't really stop us to play the game the way we see it does it?

                Yeah, personal horror in Requiem 2E, as I see it, works better when you step back a little out of in-character perspective. Because the characters themselves will be too calloused to be shocked or horrified over what they have become. Dunno if this approach deserves counts as immature, because everyone uses it for different meanings.


                MtAw Homebrew: Even more Legacies, updated to 2E

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                • #9
                  For just the corebooks.
                  First ed for me was very, "pragmatic" and "academic" in overall mood. The descriptions, the words, the fluff was a bit stale, but very descriptive and on point when it comes to ideas and descriptions, well made for information.
                  Second edition is way more abstract, personal and viewed from a single perspective more, it lacks description of information but is way more evocative and thematic.

                  I do love both, but for different reasons. Do I want theme, mood and personal horror i go after 2ed. But if I need understanding, information or just plain explanation of how something might work, feel or function,1st is the one to go to.


                  I think a major problem with 2ed is that it was never meant as a complete stand alone, but a supplement to first ed. Just compare the size of the book to 2ed werewolf, mage or any other.
                  It lacks word-count. And by lacking word-count we lack a good deal of information and fluff of how vampire things works, feels and function etc. In first ed, sure much feels like Masquerade, but at least there's inspiration for how a city functions, works and the rules and laws, the titles, the privileges and much more in depth.

                  I'm a staunch believer that one can not play 2ed requiem as a functional setting with all the plotting, politicking, scheming, philosophy and personal-vampire-angstthat vampire (all kinds) is known for without any experience beforehand. As a stand alone game, 2ed just doesn't give the complete picture.

                  This for me is also why i have a love/hate relation with the clanbooks from first ed and Secrets of the Covenants. They sure are good, but also so bad. Great for mood, theme, stories and personal discourse. But also quite bad at telling the ST information or giving guidelines of how stuff works etc.

                  Like sure, I love SotC but even after reading it from back to back three times and reading some parts of it over and over, because it's good, I still have no idea of how the Covenants in second edition is supposed to work.
                  Yes, the argument can be made about Toolboxes and yes this game-line is a Toolbox, but please give Tools that are working a bit better, or at least an instruction of how to use these tools. Now they are more like works of art then tools.
                  This is in no way a critique against the whole game, which i love, and I would never, never, go back to play 1ed. I just want a more functional 2ed. Still evocative and flavourful, with no fear of actually giving choice and power to the vampires and PCs etc, but with more depth of the world and it's functions.





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                  • #10
                    I don't really perceive it as drastic as just looking at the 1e core vs. 2e core might suggest.

                    2e feels like late 1e to me, as changes in developers and writers as well as VtR starting to do more to establish itself as not VtM 2.0 slowly transitioned the tone of the line.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                      I don't really perceive it as drastic as just looking at the 1e core vs. 2e core might suggest.

                      2e feels like late 1e to me, as changes in developers and writers as well as VtR starting to do more to establish itself as not VtM 2.0 slowly transitioned the tone of the line.

                      Yes a agree very much on this, there is a lot more difference between early 1ed and late 1ed then late 1ed and 2ed.
                      Much of what 2ed has become started in late 1ed.

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                      • #12
                        I always figured that "fight, fuck, feed" was simply an attempt to keep the unceasing ultraviolence of 1e VtR somewhat alive, but to square it into a more comprehensible and versatile outlook for mere human readers. The Beast is less a monomaniacal form of relentless stupidity and violence in 2e as it was in early to mid 1e, but more of a Mr. Hyde type force, replete with Mr. Hyde's sometimes surprising abilities to trick people as well.

                        The Beast is mostly animalistic and maximally antagonistic in older iterations, and a force of implacable violence especially in 1e, but here its more like some sort of primal, spiritual force that is borderline omniscient, so long as you know how to tap it. The Beast isn't just about killing things anymore, and a frenzy does not have to end in death, even if the Beast has its way. The Beast may simply want to feed or hurt someone, but it no longer requires you to kill and keep killing. But the Beast also does a huge share of the work: it seduces, it beguiles, it guides the vampire to dodge the ever present Smartphone Menace. It can see into Twilight, tell if there are those darn mages nearby, and more, if you know how to ask it with Auspex, and vampires retain faculties at much lower humanity levels.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Poseur View Post
                          For just the corebooks.
                          First ed for me was very, "pragmatic" and "academic" in overall mood. The descriptions, the words, the fluff was a bit stale, but very descriptive and on point when it comes to ideas and descriptions, well made for information.
                          Second edition is way more abstract, personal and viewed from a single perspective more, it lacks description of information but is way more evocative and thematic.

                          I do love both, but for different reasons. Do I want theme, mood and personal horror i go after 2ed. But if I need understanding, information or just plain explanation of how something might work, feel or function,1st is the one to go to.


                          I think a major problem with 2ed is that it was never meant as a complete stand alone, but a supplement to first ed. Just compare the size of the book to 2ed werewolf, mage or any other.
                          It lacks word-count. And by lacking word-count we lack a good deal of information and fluff of how vampire things works, feels and function etc. In first ed, sure much feels like Masquerade, but at least there's inspiration for how a city functions, works and the rules and laws, the titles, the privileges and much more in depth.

                          I'm a staunch believer that one can not play 2ed requiem as a functional setting with all the plotting, politicking, scheming, philosophy and personal-vampire-angstthat vampire (all kinds) is known for without any experience beforehand. As a stand alone game, 2ed just doesn't give the complete picture.

                          This for me is also why i have a love/hate relation with the clanbooks from first ed and Secrets of the Covenants. They sure are good, but also so bad. Great for mood, theme, stories and personal discourse. But also quite bad at telling the ST information or giving guidelines of how stuff works etc.

                          Like sure, I love SotC but even after reading it from back to back three times and reading some parts of it over and over, because it's good, I still have no idea of how the Covenants in second edition is supposed to work.
                          Yes, the argument can be made about Toolboxes and yes this game-line is a Toolbox, but please give Tools that are working a bit better, or at least an instruction of how to use these tools. Now they are more like works of art then tools.
                          This is in no way a critique against the whole game, which i love, and I would never, never, go back to play 1ed. I just want a more functional 2ed. Still evocative and flavourful, with no fear of actually giving choice and power to the vampires and PCs etc, but with more depth of the world and it's functions.




                          That's a very good point, 2e works as a supplement for 1e lore that replaces all rules a lot better than it does a stand alone product.

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                          • #14
                            The tone change for me was more of a "fuck it, who cares, we're EVIL."

                            Re-skimming the Covenant write-ups recently (my CoD game's on indefinite hold), and the Covenants seem written to be actively inimical to Humanity, despite the fact that vampires are aware Humanity exists, if not as a game mechanic than as something that makes it harder for the Beast to gain control over them. Yet everything seems written from the standpoint of "Hell with Humanity, we don't need it, we're above it!" That sense of personal horror, to me, is lacking when the approach to retaining Humanity seems to be "ah, you're better off without it." Honestly, at this point, I almost think the Paths should make a comeback, one for each Covenant, and be done with it.


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                            • #15
                              Well I only own VtR 2nd core book, but I did order Secrets of the Covenants, Thousand Years of Night, and Half-Damned yesterday (so that'll probably be a few weeks). When 1st edition was popular I bought most of the product line, so I do have a point of comparison.

                              ​The mood in 1E was sensual, mysterious, and eerie. 2E seems more... Dangerous, maybe? I probably need to read the other books before I have too solid of an opinion.

                              Also, I thought 1E's Belial's Brood was an awesome product - I often thought about running a Chicago chronicle (using the plot in the Chicago book where the Brood attack) and having a fully fleshed out Brood - so I was a little disappointed they didn't make the cut into 2E. Yes, I know I can just include them myself if I wanted to and they do have a Theban Sorcery ritual that maybe turned you into the Brood, but I was hoping for more support.

                              ​Everything else being equal, I am having an extremely fun time playing 2E so far.

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