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How Precisely to invictus oath's work.

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  • How Precisely to invictus oath's work.

    way it say's it. most of the people actualy swearing oath's arent invictus themselve's but only the one s wearing the oath need's to purchase it... am I confused or what?



  • #2
    The prospective oath taker (called the vassal) finds someone to swear an oath (called the liege) and finds a notary. Ostensibly the liege and the notary have to be Invictus but there's no mystical force that causes it to not work or has the participants to be struck down if the liege or notary is not Invictus.

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    • #3
      thing is how do I become the liege in an oath if only the one swearing it need's to purchase it? Just find a Notary and a kindred willing to swear an oath to me?


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      • #4
        Yes. As the liege though, you should probably hold subinfeudation privileges of some sort.

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        • #5
          I never really gave it much thought, but I'd like to echo the question, stressing how I, the player, go about improving my character via an Oath?

          Do I just ask my ST whether I can have it, sans experience cost? Is that not a bit unbalanced?

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          • #6
            I'm not a fan of "Invictus" oaths or Scales. They're basically cantrips to give quasi supernatural classification to things you could do mundanely or would be considered a waste of component material if you were using "legitimate" blood sorcery.

            How would you "improve" your character using an oath. Pledge yourself to a liege and get entitled to an additional vitae or two a week. That can be mundanely translated any number of ways, like being allowed to eat from a producer vessel once a week, you get an extra bucket from the butchershop owned by your liege in exchange for doing the graveyard shift patrol once a week? As an ST why would I charge xp for that?
            Last edited by tsusasi; 09-14-2018, 09:58 AM.

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            • #7
              There are merits like Herd that that could represent being the liege should you so desire.

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              • #8
                No, I mean more that the Liege gets certain benefits from an Oath but since the cost is borne by the vassal, what is stopping a player from loading up on liege powers for nothing?

                I mean, Oaths are two way, so drawbacks might be a thing, and so would story constraints but mechanically, what is the story? Can players only take Oaths as vessels? Is the only way to become a Liege to wait for the ST to send you a vessel?

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                • #9
                  Just like any other merit, it needs IC justification. Once that happens, and the vassal swears the oath - you get the benefits. However, just because someone swore fealty to you, doesn't mean it's going to be super easy to find them and drink their blood. (tho, it's likely to be much easier)


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                  • #10
                    Right, I agree with that. However, say I am creating a character. What is to stop me layering all four Oaths on as Liege. So, I say I have five underlings, all paying penance and swore to all the Oaths in B&S. As a result, for no cost (other than potential damage in a month if the tasked complete their mission), I have servants who defend my realm really well, give me an auto five potency boost, feed me by feeding, and can't bond or lie to me. Even if I had to represent that with Retainer points, it seems like a bargain. And yes, I am aware it is blatant min-maxing and as such, the golden rule would apply. I'm curious if for some other reason, this was impossible.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tabanese View Post
                      I'm curious if for some other reason, this was impossible.
                      "When swearing an Oath, the participants must define terms in addition to the Oath’s effects. Usually, they swear for a finite time, often a year and a day. Terms include conditions for violation, which end the contract (and the Oath’s effects) immediately."

                      "Invictus are deathly serious about the sanctity of Oaths. If you’re caught knowingly administering an unwilling Oath [as a Notary], or Oath a non-Invictus as liege in an agreement, the Invictus will remove you from the Estate. Usually, this removal comes through Final Death."

                      It's not strictly "impossible," but considered sensibly you're getting the benefits on a timer with early termination clauses from characters who signed onto these relationships through a character who's honor-bound on pain of death to only go ahead with these agreements from willing participants; given that this implies at least three other characters you're entangled with (two of them specifically members of the covenant), I feel as though the space for complication and the necessary hashing out of terms means this is within spec.

                      (You wouldn't get a five BP boost, though, because the restrictions on Oath of Action specifically include that you can only be part of one at a time. By a similar token, your "underlings" aren't getting the boosts from their other Oaths while they're paying penance, which strikes me as a thing they'd be uneager to opt into unless some dirt happened that further flavors the tangle your character is running.)
                      Last edited by Satchel; 03-14-2018, 08:57 PM.


                      Resident Lore-Hound
                      Currently Consuming: Demon: the Descent 1e

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                      • #12
                        Good catch with the 'only one at a time' on Action Oath. I only applied that to the vessel.

                        I suppose there is no such thing as guarding against min-maxers if they set their mind to it, and to be honest, I'm glad the system isn't kneecapped by an attempt to do so. Plus, as I mull this over, I found the fridge logic to the Oaths and Law. Not sure if what I'm about to say is intended but I'd feel protective of it now having spotted it.

                        Oaths are free powers gathered from stratifying society. The merits surrounding Carthian Law grow in power proportionate to how regulated society is, i.e how rationalized it becomes. As such, while everyone, from Lance to Ordo, Circle to Unaligned benefits from baseline politics, the members of the Political Covenants are additionally incentivized to drive their agenda because it means supernatural advantage. The more rungs to the Invictus' ladder, the more free benefits travel up it. The more laws the Carthians can enforce, they more they can shape not just behavior but being. Screw Thacher, when Carthians are about, Society is real.

                        If that was the intended effect, ya know, that's nice. I like that and can now see why you can access 'free' Liege. They're your reward for being a good little enforcer of hierarchy. Jack boots get compliments from the face below. >
                        If not, it is how I am justifying it. And you can't stop me. :P

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Satchel View Post
                          "When swearing an Oath, the participants must define terms in addition to the Oath’s effects. Usually, they swear for a finite time, often a year and a day. Terms include conditions for violation, which end the contract (and the Oath’s effects) immediately."

                          "Invictus are deathly serious about the sanctity of Oaths. If you’re caught knowingly administering an unwilling Oath [as a Notary], or Oath a non-Invictus as liege in an agreement, the Invictus will remove you from the Estate. Usually, this removal comes through Final Death."

                          It's not strictly "impossible," but considered sensibly you're getting the benefits on a timer with early termination clauses from characters who signed onto these relationships through a character who's honor-bound on pain of death to only go ahead with these agreements from willing participants; given that this implies at least three other characters you're entangled with (two of them specifically members of the covenant), I feel as though the space for complication and the necessary hashing out of terms means this is within spec.

                          (You wouldn't get a five BP boost, though, because the restrictions on Oath of Action specifically include that you can only be part of one at a time. By a similar token, your "underlings" aren't getting the boosts from their other Oaths while they're paying penance, which strikes me as a thing they'd be uneager to opt into unless some dirt happened that further flavors the tangle your character is running.)

                          dont forget their immune to your disciplines.

                          So they can strike back potentialy...


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                          • #14
                            No, that's an advantage that they lose with the Oath of Penance.

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                            • #15
                              Besides, being attacked seems like a completely reasonable clause for immediately ending the contract.


                              Bloodline: The Stygians
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