Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Cruac seem useless in Blood and Smoke

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Cruac seem useless in Blood and Smoke

    I have a player who is interested in playing a member of the Circle of the Crone. But it seems that blood sorcery is very useless and Cruac particularly.

    I let a look with him at rituals of dot 1, the ones he could have with taking Cruac at the expense of another cool discipline. (The standard disciplines are all cool at 1 dot)

    We have 2 rituals in the book (i suppose rituals published in previous books are not valable) and the 2 seem utterly useless.

    Rigor Mortis is the least useful. It makes a -3 for only one physical action. And the casting of a ritual take at least 15 minutes. In 15 minutes, the next action of the victim may probably be another action where the -3 is an inconvenience very light. It would be a very strong luck that the dice modifier is useful.

  • #2
    You could apply the Blood Sorcery rules with which it was constructed and increase the amount of successes required. Increase it to 6 successes required for it to last your dots in Cruac turns, or make it 7 successes to make it last for one scene. 8 successes to make it last until next sunrise.

    IMO, if you make it 8 successes, THEN it's a pretty nasty power to debilitate a vamp the night you want him to get his final death/torpor'd.

    I recommend grabbing Blood Sorcery and using the rituals presented in there, if not the system of Themes. That way, you'll get a lot of cool effects you could potentially do.

    A third suggestion might be to use the current rituals, but use spell factors with them. Also detailed in Blood Sorcery.


    I am no longer participating in the community. Please do not contact me about my previous work.

    Comment


    • #3
      The rituals in B&S are the effects from the original V:tR red book, created with the BS:S&B rules. Unfortunately, those rituals are some of the worst they could have possibly picked to showcase that system. I highly recommend buying BS:S&B and using its improvised casting rules in the B&S system. I did this in my group, and the player who was rolling a Circle of the Crone ritualist instantly went from regretting his choice to play a sorcery-heavy character to being thrilled about the kind of stuff he can now do.


      Going by Willow now, or Wil for short. She/Her/Hers.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Charlaquin View Post
        The rituals in B&S are the effects from the original V:tR red book, created with the BS:S&B rules. Unfortunately, those rituals are some of the worst they could have possibly picked to showcase that system. I highly recommend buying BS:S&B and using its improvised casting rules in the B&S system. I did this in my group, and the player who was rolling a Circle of the Crone ritualist instantly went from regretting his choice to play a sorcery-heavy character to being thrilled about the kind of stuff he can now do.
        I'm not getting your abbreviations. I get that BS is Blood and Smoke but what is S&B. Is that a Blood and Smoke supplement that was released that I'm unaware of?

        Comment


        • #5
          BS:S&B stands for "Blood Sorcery: Sacraments & Blasphemies"


          I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Thorbes View Post
            BS:S&B stands for "Blood Sorcery: Sacraments & Blasphemies"
            Thank you for the quick response and answer.

            Comment


            • #7
              To clarify more, Blood Sorcery is a pre-Blood and Smoke suplement but is proably the easiest to port over. As other people mentioned, the sample rituals in Blood and Smoke are the ones in the original Requiem core*, built with the rules in that suplement.

              *minus a couple of them due to the new sorcery restrictions like "not creating Banes" wich is why you don't have that Theban ritual that turned blood into fire anymore.

              EDIT: if your group is interested in Cruac or Theban Sorcery, the book is a neat buy. I'm giving it a lot of use as I have both a circle witch and a theban miracle worker as part of my group of players. It greatly rewards preparation and inventive and puts sorcery on par with the rest of the B&S Disciplines.
              Last edited by Thorbes; 04-26-2014, 04:52 PM.


              I'm So Meta Even This Acronym

              Comment


              • #8
                I think everyone's disappointed with the new system, given you need another supplement to make it work. That said, I also agree that Blood Sorcery is a worthwhile buy, and makes it a lot better even if you don't use the Themes (The systems for building new rituals and the factor charts are all you really need).



                Storytellers' Vault supplements (WoD, CoD)
                My Patreon! (CofD bonuses include: Fae Sorcery/Technomancy for Vampires, Quick Conversion for Inferno, and more!)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Things you can do with Cruac with just one dot are:
                  Summon liquids or dead organic matter, create sounds, smells, or shadows
                  protect against the power of "the kiss," heal bashing on vampires, protect against blood sorcery
                  Produce poisons or upgrade bashing to lethal
                  store vitae in inanimate objects, force kindred to roll to stay awake as if it was day, inflict hunger as in Wassail, minor appearance changes (like aging), animate blood

                  You can find more information about it in the Blood Sorcery: Sacraments & Blasphemies that others mentioned previously. There really isn't any conversion to do concerning blood sorcery to use it in the Strix Chronicle. Blood and Smoke uses Blood Sorcery rules (simplified) to create the rites found there.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The problem is that the rituals that already exist were created in the context of a ritual that could be done in a matter of turns--in seconds--rather than hours. There are no doubt effects that would be worth the time spent, but they're just not here yet.

                    For example, some of the very best early level Cruac rituals were, in my opinion, Blood Witness and Cheval, and they were amazing because they let you spy really well. You could tag an area and overhear and watch secret stuff going down there. You could Cheval someone and watch them go about their business. It was excellent.

                    Now, you can't just drop some blood in a few seconds and leave, you have to skulk around painting the grounds with blood for at least 15 minutes (and probably closer to an hour). You can't just cut yourself in the shadows and tag someone who is none the wiser with a Cheval, you have to touch them with blood for an hour or more. What's the point of that? Why would you care to see through the eyes of someone that knew you were seeing through their eyes?

                    Changing the base assumptions of Cruac (and Theban, which is also really weak) is fine, but they need to create new rituals with those assumptions in mind, rather than converting the old ones.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm ok with you Storyteller. In the actual context, with the rules of Blood and smoke, the few rituals they provide are useless. We need more rituals in a futur book compatible with Blood and smoke rules. Rituals that let a player think about playing eventually a blood sorcerer. With the actuals rules, nobody wants to have dot in Cruac or Theban Sorcery.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If they just put a few rituals in the book like the ones I'd use, even at a low level (for instance, protection 1, destruction 1, creation 1 ritual that gathers shadows to you that grant a dicepool modifier equal to potency to attempts to stay hidden[creation], coating your form to provide armour 1 [protection] and infusing your natural attacks to upgrade bashing to lethal [destruction]. Call it Shadow Warrior, or Khaibit Light. You can make it last the evening with decent potency for a reasonable amount of successes and the cost of 1 vitae. Well worth it if you plan to infiltrate an area that might turn into a sticky situation, or an assassiantion) the usefulness of blood sorcery would be clear.


                        Homebrew
                        - CtL 2E: Seeming Benefits for every Contract

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I don't know anything about the Blood Sorcery book, but as others have mentioned it's not a problem with the sorcery rules per say, but a problem with the rituals in the main book. The rituals used to be quick, like you can perform in combat, quick, now they can take up to an hour to perform. A ritual that makes a vampire feel starving is useful when you can do it right then and there, but when it takes and hour and they have to mostly stay in the same place, it's kind of underwhelming. They increased duration of some of the effects to make them better, but the rituals in the book were made for a different system.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Arcanum Magicae View Post
                            I have a player who is interested in playing a member of the Circle of the Crone. But it seems that blood sorcery is very useless and Cruac particularly..
                            I won't say Cruac in particular, because Theban was as much broken as Cruac was. The new rules are pure and utter crap, and several rituals made actively bad to use. As others have said, the new rules were made using the factors system from the Blood Sorcery: Blasphemies and Sacraments book, and the system from that book all but required to make new vamp sorceries work. The problem is that the system the system is designed to make vampires think and act like mages. The entire thing is an attempt to bring Mage into Vampire - the Blood Sorcery book even said as much! I have found that it actively hurts vampire's themes , and I feel that it is unduly restrictive to the kinds of LS and CotC characters you can play. I truly hope a new, alternative system shows up in a book, because, as is, I can never support the current blood magic rules. Or use the old system instead, from the original core book.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              And, quite possibly the worst part of this for me? All the flaws and issues that came with the over powered nature of ritual casting that was imported from Mage? Never fixed. Even the fixes that came from Mage itself, such as not ritual casting damage spells, were ignored. We didn't just get Mage Arcana in Vampire, and all the problems that brings. We got the bugged version.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X